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In regards to the ammo, fair enough. However would really be that much of a practical difference between a 5.7×28mm hollow point and any of those "better" rounds when put into a human skull at a distance between 0-50 ft? Enough to outweigh the other reasons I went with the P90?

And depending on the zombie in question, hallow bullets might just be the tool for the job

Would incendiary bullets help?

Have you been reading the thread or not? You need to physically destroy the zombies body if you want to stop them. How exactly are you going to do this with incendiaries?

Lighthawk wrote:However would really be that much of a practical difference between a 5.7×28mm hollow point and any of those "better" rounds when put into a human skull at a distance between 0-50 ft?

The difference would be knockdown/knockback when you hit the body, but more importantly how much KE goes into the target rather than through it. Even considering JHP's, the increase in KE transfer vs. penetration would apply equally to the 5.7x28 and the heavier, slower rounds. Also, if we're talking about a situation in which other human survivors are in the theater, you want rounds that stop in the target. Unless you want to say, "Sorry - you're beat!" to your fellow survivors.

Lighthawk wrote:Enough to outweigh the other reasons I went with the P90?

That, I guess, is a matter of preference. As I said, my primary criterion would be the effectiveness of the round. Your primary consideration might be ergonomics, transparent mag, or any of the other advantages of the P90.

alexmann wrote:Would incendiary bullets help?

Captain Seafort wrote:Have you been reading the thread or not? You need to physically destroy the zombies body if you want to stop them. How exactly are you going to do this with incendiaries?

Are incendiary rounds even available for anything lighter than .50 cal anti-materiel rifles?

More than that incendiaries are more or less designed to set gas tanks on fire, not turn a person into a human torch.

Even going beyond that I am unaware of such ammunition being produced for lighter arms. I know it exist for the .50 BMG round. But I don't think you will find it in 7.62 or 5.56 rounds anyway. Possibly Russian equipment which I am not as familiar with but I doubt it.

I doubt the 7.62x39 has room. There might be incendiary rounds for the 15.2mm Steyr, but that's getting farther away from small arms, not closer.

But yes, JKU is absolutely right - incendiary rounds are NOT high-speed tiny Molotovs.

Mikey wrote:But yes, JKU is absolutely right - incendiary rounds are NOT high-speed tiny Molotovs.

Even if they were, the idea of a bullet weighing a few grams setting fire to several dozen kilos of water is idiotic.

An exceedingly cursory search only lists results for API small-arms ammo in .50 BMG.

I think the issue that's being missed is the user. Lighthawk is informing us that he wouldn't be able to use larger/heavier weapons as effectively as he can use the P90. All the power in the world is meaningless if the shooter isn't big enough to handle the weapon.

I see your point, but an MP5 is no heavier than a P90.

Not by much, but it is a much larger "feeling" weapon then the P90. Also, the P90 is a lot easier to use for an inexperienced shooter. Lighter round and recoil, larger magazine and easier to maneuver one handed.

Mikey wrote:The difference would be knockdown/knockback when you hit the body,

Not where I'd be aiming though. Depending on zombie type, body shots can be all but useless wastes of ammo. Killing the brain is the one universal method of zombie destruction...well, along side complete obliteration of the zombie, but that's not likely to happen with any man portable weapon smaller than a bazooka.

but more importantly how much KE goes into the target rather than through it. Even considering JHP's, the increase in KE transfer vs. penetration would apply equally to the 5.7x28 and the heavier, slower rounds.

I get that, but I don't see it making enough of a difference between the different sized rounds against the given target. A .45 might make a bigger mess of a human skull than a 5.7x28, but I'm pretty sure even the 5.7x28 will ruin a zombie's day if it goes through its face and blows out the back of its head.

Also, if we're talking about a situation in which other human survivors are in the theater, you want rounds that stop in the target. Unless you want to say, "Sorry - you're beat!" to your fellow survivors.

That, admittedly, I had not considered. Thinking on it though, while there are better options, I don't think the P90 is so outclassed as to make switching it for a possible issue a good enough reason. Hostile armed humans are hardly guaranteed. I think I'd sooner stick with the P90 and just carry some mags of the standard round, and make use of that extra penetration power to deny them cover options.

That, I guess, is a matter of preference. As I said, my primary criterion would be the effectiveness of the round. Your primary consideration might be ergonomics, transparent mag, or any of the other advantages of the P90.

Fair enough, and yes, I do consider all those other reasons good enough to go with a round that is a bit less powerful, but which I feel is well up to the job at hand.

I think the issue that's being missed is the user. Lighthawk is informing us that he wouldn't be able to use larger/heavier weapons as effectively as he can use the P90. All the power in the world is meaningless if the shooter isn't big enough to handle the weapon.

Close. I'm 6'1" and 220, I don't think there is an smg too big for me to handle really. My concern on the size end of things is more lugging it and the ammo around, I've never been a distance runner.

Not by much, but it is a much larger "feeling" weapon then the P90. Also, the P90 is a lot easier to use for an inexperienced shooter. Lighter round and recoil, larger magazine and easier to maneuver one handed.

This. I've got just enough experience to know how much I'm lacking in proper training. I most certainly would want a more forgiving weapon.

If you want a smaller one use the H&K MP5K

IIRC, the UMP is a bit smaller than the MP5. And the only thing I know about firearm usage is that this:

Lighthawk wrote:Not where I'd be aiming though.

is almost universally considered the wrong way to shoot.

The mp5K is specifically designed to be small.