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BigJKU316 wrote:Not at all really. I just think people are stating with fighters and the solution to the problem (because they like fighters) rather than trying to solve the problem with what already exist in the universe.

This says a lot of nothing...

Deepcrush wrote:

BigJKU316 wrote:Not at all really. I just think people are stating with fighters and the solution to the problem (because they like fighters) rather than trying to solve the problem with what already exist in the universe.

This says a lot of nothing...

Well we started with needing fighters to dominate a large area of space but that did not really work out. Now we have transitioned to wanting them basically for CAS of troops, but we don't really have any idea what sort of battles are fought in a large scale on land in Trek, what sort of equipment they are using and if that even makes sense for the type of battle they are fighting when they get there. Even if they do need it why do they need a special carrier rather than just ferrying the necessary CAS aircraft in aboard normal ships and have them operate from the planets surface.

I think that you've gotten things mixed up. Its not that we have to have the fighters. Its that they are useful for any number of things. The point of the thread is to figure out how the Battlestar can be useful and if it would be worth having.

They are useful in CAS (due to their fighters), they are useful in fleet battles (due to their massive combat ability), they are useful for scouting when sensors can't/shouldn't be used (due to their fighters), they are useful with planet based assaults (due to carrying troops).

Deepcrush wrote:I think that you've gotten things mixed up. Its not that we have to have the fighters. Its that they are useful for any number of things. The point of the thread is to figure out how the Battlestar can be useful and if it would be worth having.

They are useful in CAS (due to their fighters), they are useful in fleet battles (due to their massive combat ability), they are useful for scouting when sensors can't/shouldn't be used (due to their fighters), they are useful with planet based assaults (due to carrying troops).

I agree that can be useful. I am just not sure they are more useful in most cases than simply building a Battlestar type ship without or with a drastically reduced emphasis on fighters. I realize I am proposing we look at different solutions to the problem but in Trek a large carrier is also a vastly different solution from the norm. There have clearly been invasions carried off without such craft for a long time. You are basically developing the concept from scratch so the learning curve will be very steep.

That is why I would start with solutions based on what already exist, then move onto a carrier only if nothing else can work.

BigJKU316 wrote:I agree that can be useful. I am just not sure they are more useful in most cases than simply building a Battlestar type ship without or with a drastically reduced emphasis on fighters.

When it comes to CAS, there is nothing better then a fighter on scene.

I realize I am proposing we look at different solutions to the problem but in Trek a large carrier is also a vastly different solution from the norm.

Yes, the if you read the thread title then you'll understand the problem with your approach.

There have clearly been invasions carried off without such craft for a long time.

And that means what? That when you have a better idea you shouldn't use it because you already have something going? Even if that new idea is a superior idea...

You are basically developing the concept from scratch so the learning curve will be very steep.

Yes, as we've never had a ship with both fighters and Marines on it before.

That is why I would start with solutions based on what already exist, then move onto a carrier only if nothing else can work.

Please read above.

Ok....so first question. How BIG does this SOB need to be? And we a project name for the Federation Battlestar as well.

Mark wrote:Ok....so first question. How BIG does this SOB need to be? And we a project name for the Federation Battlestar as well.

Probably pretty damn big. And how's Project Adama? Serves as both a homage to the show, and is evidently Hebrew for "Red" or "Earth" (depending on who you ask) and so lends itself to a cover story.

Sonic Glitch wrote:evidently Hebrew for "Red" or "Earth" (depending on who you ask) and so lends itself to a cover story.

Huh? I always assumed it meant "man", given the root name.

I like it. Project Adama it is. How did we do scaling for the Paladin?

Captain Seafort wrote:

Sonic Glitch wrote:evidently Hebrew for "Red" or "Earth" (depending on who you ask) and so lends itself to a cover story.

Huh? I always assumed it meant "man", given the root name.

I'm not sure where the "Red" translation, but according to various quick google searches and WikiAnswers...., "Adam" means "man," "Adom" means "Red" and "Adama" means "Earth" -- Adam being made from the Earth

Mark wrote:I like it. Project Adama it is. How did we do scaling for the Paladin?

How big it should be depends on what we want it to do.

Well, we're looking for a mobile gun platform obviously. I'm thinking at LEAST six 12-ship squadrens of fighters, plus starfleet support ships such as runabouts and standard shuttles. Ground troops and their support gear as well.

Thoughts?

If you're using the fighters for CAS then you'll probably want at least a hundred of them.

Regarding troops, I imagine you'd want a few thousand if the purpose of the ship is to establish a beach-head on the planet before dedicated transports show up.

I'd say you're looking at something bigger than a kilometre long. Perhaps closer to two.

We'll up the fighters to 10 squadrens then. Five in each docking pylon.

I'd judge it like this. What do we need to support a mobile Corp of Marines?

So to start you have 20,000 Marines. 1,000 armored vehicles (I was thinking something like the Land Raider so that we have a MBT and APC in one). 6 months of supplies for extended operations. 20 support craft split by 12 fighter squadrons (take a guess what they do) and 8 shuttle squadrons (for medi-evac or rapid deployment of small units or SAR).

Then we have to decide how well protected do we want this ship to be? Consider its cargo and purpose and take it from there. She has to be tough enough to survive fleet actions and planet based assaults. Large enough to carry its cargo effectively. Powerful enough to destroy anything but a determined enemy attack and raze enemy defenses.