Police Brutality

[Mikey]

Hmmm... the mob, indeed... how about that strange and totally innocuous coincidence...

[Granitehewer]

dick cheney could be in A mob, a mob of witch-hunting burning-brand-bearing superstitious suspicious peasants....

[Monroe]

dick cheney could be in A mob, a mob of witch-hunting burning-brand-bearing superstitious suspicious peasants....

He is though. The Republican Party.

[Granitehewer]

ooh monroe, back of the net!! score!

[Kamakazie Sith]

I hope everyone is aware of the fact that a video doesn't show you everything, and actually misses a lot of information.

Does everyone realize that the forum was re-opened so they this kid could have his question answered? Questions were closed by the forum moderator while Mr. Meyers was in line waiting for his turn. He then jumped up the front and demanded his turn. He was allowed to do so, but the police were told to stand by him because of his visible aggitated state.

Meyers began asking his question, which then became another questions, and then finally a third question. His question actually became part question, and part education for the audience.

After speaking for 1:20 seconds which he didn't allow John Kerry to answer his first question the University officials cut his microphone off, and ordered police to remove him from the property. Yes, John Kerry said "Let me answer his question", but what many of you don't realize is John Kerry is a guest of the University and holds no authority there.

Mr. Meyers was being escorted out and told to stop resisting, but he refused to do so at which point he was placed under arrest for resisting an officer, and disturbing the peace. He still continued to resist ever up to the point that the police managed to get one handcuff on him, but they were unable to get the other cuff on, and an open cuff can be a potentially dangerous weapon if swung around. At this point the officer tasered him by use of a contact tase, and they were able to secure the handcuff, and complete the arrest.

There are other ways that they could have facilitated the handcuffing, but those ways involve joint manipulation that can cause injury. Meyers was arrested with no injury, and that's what tasers were designed for. They're designed to reduce the chance of injury to both officers, and subjects by removing the hands on approach.

Let's recap, and clear up some misunderstandings that I've seen in this thread.

1 - He wasn't arrested for asking questions. He was arrested for resisting the police escort, and disturbing the peace. If he would have just allowed the police to escort him from the building he wouldn't have been arrested.

2 - He was tasered because he resisted arrest, and there was a potentially dangerous situation with the loose handcuff.

3 - While tasers have killed people they've never been, not that I know, directly blamed for it. Those that have died from being tasered had similar conditions to those that I have died in other situations designated as "In Custody Deaths" ranging from handcuffs to simply being arrested. In those situations it was the stress of the event that killed them.

4 - Tasers have only been shown to pose a significant risk of death to those that have pace makers.

[Granitehewer]

Tasers are of risk to anybody with any sort of myocardial disorder, diagnosed and more importantly undiagnosed, whether it be a history of/predisposition to myocardial infarctions or relating to leakage of the aorta for example, tasers also affect the sino-atrial node and the myofibrils in the ventricles, and whilst i hypocritically do applaude the tasering of the individual, due to him, being mildly belligerent and majorly unco-operative, and agree that the loose cuff was a potential danger, the campus officers,were clearly tinpot policemen for allowing the pillock to get out of hand in the first place, and for not being able to restrain him properly and efficiently.

[Granitehewer]

Am not disputing that 'tasers have a significant risk to those with artifical pacemakers', but am not sure if 'significant' here means considerable or 'statistically significant' ie below the alpha/p value, set at 0.05 or whatever in this case.
What i was saying is that, tasers do affect a myriad of cardiac conditions and areas, obviously to differing degrees with extraneous variables, so caution must be used

[Kamakazie Sith]

Tasers are of risk to anybody with any sort of myocardial disorder, diagnosed and more importantly undiagnosed, whether it be a history of/predisposition to myocardial infarctions or relating to leakage of the aorta for example, tasers also affect the sino-atrial node and the myofibrils in the ventricles, and whilst i hypocritically do applaude the tasering of the individual, due to him, being mildly belligerent and majorly unco-operative, and agree that the loose cuff was a potential danger, the campus officers,were clearly tinpot policemen for allowing the pillock to get out of hand in the first place, and for not being able to restrain him properly and efficiently.

I think the movies have made it difficult for real police to be shown in a positive light in these situations. Restraining someone that doesn't want to be restrained is actually difficult, and all those officers did was walk up the use of force continum.

Under policy they did nothing wrong. They tried escorting him out because that is the appropriate level of force you should use when escorting someone out. When they made the decision to arrest him they took him to the ground, but he was still able to keep them from securing the other handcuff. People can be surprisingly strong, so I'm not really following what you're saying here. What did they not do properly?

[Granitehewer]

Firstly, my point is not based upon 'the movies' which is hardly a font of knowledge.
Secondly, the officers in their movements and control&restraint techniques were stammered and poorly coordinated, verging on indecisive, lacking rapidity, coherency and cogency.
True the only control and restraint, i learnt, was in the 10th fusiliers and working at the psychiatric ward of the royal victoria infirmary, so therefore there may be some disimilaries in the embellishments between police/campus security control&restraint in the states and over here in different establishments, but the fundamental and foundational methodologies and principles are the same....

[Granitehewer]

The gent concerned, having asked his question, was standing waiting, despite Kerrys' pleas for calm, the campus police mandhandled him in an attempt to eject him, without handling him or the situation properly, then the gent flips, the campus police lost control of their efforts to eject him, clumsily allowing him to fall,sprawled on the floor,in a potentially damaging stance, piling onto the questioner,with one campus police officer using an arm bar to the mans' throat or upper chest.
Rather than allow the individual to create a fiasco and push the officials around, 0:31, he should be been dropped&restrained in a unified manner, rather than allowing the individual to continue, and rather than reacting to him, allowing him to dictate a great part of the situation on his terms.

[Granitehewer]

i'm sure,that in the 419th ,you were taught to avoid the subject dictating the situation, to work in a unified manner, to use appropriate control procedures,which have been tried,tested and ethically cleared and which would control the situation to minimise risks of physical and psychological harm to all persons involved, so if a professional like yourself can do it,why can't they, especially as they were being recorded and thus under more scrutiny?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Firstly, my point is not based upon 'the movies' which is hardly a font of knowledge.
Secondly, the officers in their movements and control&restraint techniques were stammered and poorly coordinated, verging on indecisive, lacking rapidity, coherency and cogency.

Yes, it's called a real fight where things don't flow like they do in training.

True the only control and restraint, i learnt, was in the 10th fusiliers and working at the psychiatric ward of the royal victoria infirmary, so therefore there may be some disimilaries in the embellishments between police/campus security control&restraint in the states and over here in different establishments, but the fundamental and foundational methodologies and principles are the same....

Those were police, and not security. Campus police are required to meet the same standards as all police.

[Kamakazie Sith]

The gent concerned, having asked his question, was standing waiting, despite Kerrys' pleas for calm, the campus police mandhandled him in an attempt to eject him, without handling him or the situation properly, then the gent flips, the campus police lost control of their efforts to eject him, clumsily allowing him to fall,sprawled on the floor,in a potentially damaging stance, piling onto the questioner,with one campus police officer using an arm bar to the mans' throat or upper chest.
Rather than allow the individual to create a fiasco and push the officials around, 0:31, he should be been dropped&restrained in a unified manner, rather than allowing the individual to continue, and rather than reacting to him, allowing him to dictate a great part of the situation on his terms.

Are we watching the same video? They didn't start to "manhandle" him until he began resisting.

What you're complaining about is more about politics than anything else. As a campus police officer you have to be a bit more careful in the amount of force you use, and the speed in which you use it. I'd never be a university police officer for this very reason.

Actually, they were trying to do exactly what you're saying they should do, but real fights rarely ever go by the book.

[Kamakazie Sith]

i'm sure,that in the 419th ,you were taught to avoid the subject dictating the situation, to work in a unified manner, to use appropriate control procedures,which have been tried,tested and ethically cleared and which would control the situation to minimise risks of physical and psychological harm to all persons involved, so if a professional like yourself can do it,why can't they, especially as they were being recorded and thus under more scrutiny?

They did do it. Mr. Meyers didn't have an injury on him despite is active resisting.

Also, I'm a supply guy in the 419th...who gives a shit about that? My civilian job, however, is a police officer.