Horta

[Granitehewer]

i concur, dimorphic species can vary considerably both in real life and even fiction eg the yautja

[Sionnach Glic]

True, but until we see more examples of this species we shouldn't make any assumptions about what a normal Horta is/looks like/is capable of based off a single member of this species, at least from a scientific point of view

Incorrect. While we can't be 100% sure, it's logical to assume that members of the same race would be of similar physiology. Assuming different is nonsensical, even if you only get to see one member of the race in question.

i concur, dimorphic species can vary considerably both in real life and even fiction eg the yautja

Not to the extent where they are completely different in physiology.

[Granitehewer]

but they can differ substantially in mass, and with at least the invertebrates,quite significally across gender in terms of morphology

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Here's some interesting information on the Horta:

According to the text commentary for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home by Michael Okuda, "Two days before the filming of the Federation Council chamber scene, it was requested that it include a Horta ambassador. However, due to the short notice for the request, it was impossible to create a Horta in time for filming, and the Horta failed to appear in the film."

In the TNG novel, Dyson Sphere, it is revealed that Starfleet has starships crewed entirely by Horta. These ships are of standard design with nearly all amenities removed, and filled with solid stone, which the Horta can reshape as they see fit.

The series of non-canon Star Trek: Titan novels also has a male Horta character, Chwolkk, who serves as an engineer on the USS Titan

[Sionnach Glic]

but they can differ substantially in mass, and with at least the invertebrates,quite significally across gender in terms of morphology

In size, yes, drasticaly so. In shape? No. Most are very similar in all genders.

Here's some interesting information on the Horta:

All non-canon and containing no relevant information at all.

[Granitehewer]

many are similar in morphologies but there are plenty of exceptions like in many holometabolous insects, also besides gender, there can be especially pronounced dimorphism in life stages which may be pertinent to the horta debate, and so horta crew may be of a different gender or life stage eg the equivalent to embryo,decticous/adecticous larva, pupa and imago

[Blackstar the Chakat]

many are similar in morphologies but there are plenty of exceptions like in many holometabolous insects, also besides gender, there can be especially pronounced dimorphism in life stages which may be pertinent to the horta debate, and so horta crew may be of a different gender or life stage eg the equivalent to embryo,decticous/adecticous larva, pupa and imago

I already said something to that effect, but Rochey just goes "Occum's Razor" for some reason rather then speculate. He's like a Vulcan or something.

[Sionnach Glic]

many are similar in morphologies but there are plenty of exceptions like in many holometabolous insects, also besides gender, there can be especially pronounced dimorphism in life stages which may be pertinent to the horta debate, and so horta crew may be of a different gender or life stage eg the equivalent to embryo,decticous/adecticous larva, pupa and imago

Fair point. Were there any indication that Horta change shape over their lives, then I'd go with this. However, there isn't. So far the only indication that Horta have different forms at all are the non-canon novels. As such, there's no reason to assume this is the case.

[Graham Kennedy]

No reason to assume it isn't, either.

[Granitehewer]

lol my point,just offering suggestions not assumptions, i like rochey too much to actually debate anything vigorously, plus he outranks me

[Sionnach Glic]

No reason to assume it isn't, either.

Quite true, we have nothing to suggest either way. However, there's no logic in assuming a creature goes through several major physical changes in its life, including the creation and loss of limbs, without evidence to suggest it.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

No reason to assume it isn't, either.

Quite true, we have nothing to suggest either way. However, there's no logic in assuming a creature goes through several major physical changes in its life, including the creation and loss of limbs, without evidence to suggest it.

Well...it depends on if you could consider metamorphosis death. We were told that every 50,000 years, all of the Horta die out except for one, the so-called mother Horta, who then watches the eggs until they hatch and mothers and protects them. But this is rather risky for the civilization's continuation. Since if the mother is killed you have a couple hundred Horta kids being born without a mother and would probably die. Wouldn't it make more sense if the 'eggs' were more like a cocoon that lets a Horta be reborn in a new form with the knowledge of an 'adult'? Otherwise there civiliazation esentially dies every 50,000 years

[Sionnach Glic]

What are you suggesting? That each Horta turns into an egg, leaving only one (the mother) in a normal state to look after them, and then hatch again?

[stitch626]

Quite true, we have nothing to suggest either way. However, there's no logic in assuming a creature goes through several major physical changes in its life, including the creation and loss of limbs, without evidence to suggest it.

So is there no logic to butterflies?

[Sionnach Glic]

We know butterflies change because we see them change. We do not see Horta change, ergo there is no reason to assume they do.