The Big Three

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Graham Kennedy
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Graham Kennedy »

That's a powerful achievement for all of humanity and its suppose to last forever and suddenly is erased by the passing of the massive ship. The Spuknik just wouldn't cut it :p

It's still a US achievement. They even open with a big picture of the American flag (which in reality fell over when they took off again by the way).

True, but like I said its a global event that takes place from the US' perspective.

Which is the very definition of being US-centric.

Well if a US sub finds it a US plane would naturally be sent. Besides, Americans and the Russians are the most likely to find it having the two most mobalized militaries, and Americans now ahead so logically an American finding it is more likely than say a Polish Sub.

You are justifying the attitude now. And I am not saying the attitude is not justified. But to say "well it should center on the US" is still to admit that it does in fact center on the US.

Actually its an attack that happens around the world about at the same time. While I don't know for sure who hit first or what the other results are since I never read the spin off book but other countries perform the same thing.

We see nothing whatsoever of any other attack. So even if they happened, it is still US-centric.

US sends huge groups against three alien ships, most other countries just have one or zero alien ships at this point. Based on the Odds Americans are the most likely.

Again, it may be justified in being US-centric but the fact remains that it is so.

Does that really surprise you? :P We're the only country to have used nuclear weapons. Besides, lines of communication were cut at that point so maybe Russian's covered in a nuclear winter.

Maybe it is, but the movie does not show this. It shows only the US aspect of things, which is what US-centric means.

I think you misunderstood that speech :P He said that that day was beyond Americans but for the whole world. He was saying that the Ameircan holiday will be forgotten because of the bigger picture. And don't tell me that if we survived an interstellar war we wouldn't celebrate VE (Victory Earth :P) day.

That's one way to look at it. You could also look at it as saying "the whole world will be becoming a little bit American now". Which I think was the intent of the scene.

Actually it doesn't specifically say how the other battles played out. Maybe some of the other ships were shot down by missile around the same time.

Exactly. It doesn't even report on what may be happening elsewhere. It is only concerned with what is happening in America.

Compare this with say an Indian film that has aliens coming to Earth and landing in New Deli? Or aliens attack 4? times in London, England? I think there's more cause for the Independence Day aliens than the Slitheen, Racnoss, Cyber Men, Daleks, the Doctor all coming to the same town.

Again, my argument is not that the US is bad or wrong to make US-centric movies. My argument is not that other people don't do it too. My argument is simply that this is something the US does, and ID4 is a prime example of it.

I will add, though, that given the way the movie world works, other countries see far more US-centric stuff than the US ever sees of the converse. Lest we forget US audiences are insular enough that the movie companies frequently remake a foreign movie with US stars and often a US setting.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Monroe »

Hmm looks like we're mostly in agreement just different idea of what a <country> Centric means. For me its okay if its justified.

That's one way to look at it. You could also look at it as saying "the whole world will be becoming a little bit American now". Which I think was the intent of the scene.
I don't see this at all. I can't imagine many people think that the speech was to tell the world that everyone's going to be US citizens now. That's the first I've heard of that take. Its when humanity united together not when everyone on Earth became Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGUqd_M6Mg

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To me that sums up a new definition of Independence Day as not an American holiday but as a holiday to celebrate beating the aliens.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Deepcrush »

I liked that speech, can anyone find it and post it?
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Blackstar the Chakat »

Deepcrush wrote:I liked that speech, can anyone find it and post it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGUqd_M6Mg


There you go
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Deepcrush »

Thank you.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Monroe wrote:Hmm looks like we're mostly in agreement just different idea of what a <country> Centric means. For me its okay if its justified.
Never said it couldn't be justified; just said it should be recognised for what it is. It's just a fact that the US likes to make movies and TV shows about the US, just as Doctor Who has all the alien invasions happening in the UK. I do think US audiences are somewhat less accepting of non-US-centric stuff than most, though. Witness the rewriting of history that occurs to have Americans capturing the Enigma machine in U-571, for instance.

I don't see this at all. I can't imagine many people think that the speech was to tell the world that everyone's going to be US citizens now. That's the first I've heard of that take. Its when humanity united together not when everyone on Earth became Americans.
It's when Humanity united together under US leadership, with the sole contribution of the rest of the world being "gosh, what are the Americans planning?"
"You will be launching the largest aeiral attack in the history of mankind... we will be united in our common interest... perhaps its fate today is the fourth of july, not from <english stuff> but from annihilation... right to live. Where the world declared in one voice we will not go quietly into the night..."
I do have to say, it's a well written and performed speech. Although I was giggling at the idea of the US President personally flying an F/A-18 into combat, I did find the call to arms very stirring.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by kostmayer »

As a Brit, I'd have to put Blake's 7 among the big three.

It had cheesy lines, terrible effects, and horrible costumes. And yet it still had moments of brilliance.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Deepcrush »

For the big three I would have to say Warhammer. Between 40k, Gothic and Epic being the main ones and a number of other smaller games. The Warhammer universe is the most well built scifi south of Trek and Wars.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Teaos »

WH40K is big but its fan base is no where near the size of some others.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Deepcrush »

B5 would be my next guess, followed close by Dr Who.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Mikey »

GrahamKennedy wrote:Witness the rewriting of history that occurs to have Americans capturing the Enigma machine in U-571, for instance.
Yeah, what was up with that? I had meant to find out what happened in the research on that film, but was too distracted by my wife drooling over Jon Bon Jovi.

Also witness the relative lack of respect that a film like Das Boot continues to receive. OK, so it focused on members of the "bad guys." But it was one of the most well-made films I have ever seen.
Deepcrush wrote:For the big three I would have to say Warhammer. Between 40k, Gothic and Epic being the main ones and a number of other smaller games. The Warhammer universe is the most well built scifi south of Trek and Wars.
The universe is as well-built and detailed as anything. But GW's practices (as we've discussed under Wargames) have continued to keep it under the radar, and out of the league we're discussing.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Aaron »

Mikey wrote:
Yeah, what was up with that? I had meant to find out what happened in the research on that film, but was too distracted by my wife drooling over Jon Bon Jovi.
Yours too huh? The opening/closing scrawl makes it clear that it was never intended to be historically accurate but a homage to the people who actually did it. I think it even lists the actual vessels that participated.

Now pardon me but I have to wash the taste of vomit out.
Also witness the relative lack of respect that a film like Das Boot continues to receive. OK, so it focused on members of the "bad guys." But it was one of the most well-made films I have ever seen.
Being in German probably didn't help things.
The universe is as well-built and detailed as anything. But GW's practices (as we've discussed under Wargames) have continued to keep it under the radar, and out of the league we're discussing.
WH40K is far to obscure to rack up to even Space:1999. I've walked into a bookstore that I know carries the novels and asked about them, I got "Warhammer, what's that?"

And I never heard of it before I joined SDN in 2004, half my friends still don't know what it is and a good number of them are right into Sci-Fi. One refuses to even check it out because he considers it "playing with dolls".
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Mikey »

Cpl Kendall wrote:Space:1999
And this makes two of us on this board who have heard of THAT. :lol:
Cpl Kendall wrote:he considers it "playing with dolls".
Dolls with CHAINSWORDS!
Cpl Kendall wrote:Yours too huh?
Yeah, she's insane about him. She grew up in the next town over here in Jersey; went to grade school with his cousin; visited his folks' barber shop; drive's by his mansion on the Navesink River (which is fairly close to where I live;) etc.
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Aaron »

Mikey wrote:
And this makes two of us on this board who have heard of THAT. :lol:
That show was sheer awesome contained in 1970's workout suits!

Dolls with CHAINSWORDS!
:lol:

Yeah, she's insane about him. She grew up in the next town over here in Jersey; went to grade school with his cousin; visited his folks' barber shop; drive's by his mansion on the Navesink River (which is fairly close to where I live;) etc.
Creeepyy. Well you at least got a good ride after the flick thanks to his marvelous performance I hope. :wink:
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Re: The Big Three

Post by Mikey »

Cpl Kendall wrote:That show was sheer awesome contained in 1970's workout suits!
And Martin Landau. He's never done anything bad.
Cpl Kendall wrote:Well you at least got a good ride after the flick thanks to his marvelous performance I hope.
Yeah, there is an upside. At this point, BTW, she has seen Bon Jovi more than I had seen the Dead while Papa was still alive.
I can't stand nothing dull
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I'll massacre your ass as fast
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