Gay marriage arguments

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Aaron
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

Post by Aaron »

Mikey wrote:Really? Common-law marriages don't occur until years have passed over here. Damn straight about the child-support issue, Kendall. There needs to be better enforcement of timely payment, and overwatch to insure that the payee is actually putting that money toward child support.

Yup, six months. While Canada is very Liberal, these laws were drafted a few decades ago when woman didn't have the earning power they do today. It was basically expected that in a divorce they would choose not to work and and stay at home to raise the kids (who went to Mom in 90% of cases). I'm sure the idea was also to relieve the social assistance systems as well. :roll:
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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I'm more concerned that you have it in your own heads that the majority of Christians in America don't have the LGBTA crushing issues. And that "God hates fags" crowd. While admittedly not small. Is a minority of organized Christian religion. And it isn't that the only good Christian is one that skips church.

It isn't even like in Iran or some such where the populace as a whole keeps in a government that hangs gays. We regularly elect Democrats over here, are passing more civil union type laws, and even the Republican line is softening.
A majority of people who identify as Christian on some survey do not have gay-crushing as #1 on their agenda, no.

Of the people who say that their most important voting issue is Christian values, or moral values? Ah, the numbers are going up. Why is that? And where are all the Christian political organizations using their sway for something benevolent instead of trying to shove "family values" into everyone's bedroom and doctor's office and pharmacy and school?

The more important "religion" is to someone's worldview and values and politics, the more you tend to see intolerance getting ratcheted up, and not just in the Muslim part of the world. And you follow that to the very far end of the continuum to groups whose sole existence is to promote and protect the interests of "religion" in the political forum, and there you have your people who say Hurricane Katrina was god's punishment for homosexuality, or people whose mouths tighten up into a little sour line when they are asked to condemn someone for blowing up an abortion clinic.

I do believe moderate, non-hateful people who believe in the Christian god are the majority of all Christians. So why haven't they knocked this extremist lunatic fringe out of leadership of all Christianity for political purposes in the United States?

If you don't have a good answer for that, then you don't have a right to lay around whining about the bias against you.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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The answer, and not just for Christians, is that the lunatics/extremists/fundamentalists of any such particular group are invariably the most vocal as well.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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Mikey wrote:The answer, and not just for Christians, is that the lunatics/extremists/fundamentalists of any such particular group are invariably the most vocal as well.
I like to counter Franklin's "Squeaky Wheel" analogy with my: " The chirping cricket gets the poison", personally. :wink:

I agree with Dusk on this one; just as with the Muslim community, all religions need to up their efforts to shut extremist morons up, lest they be unfairly categorized.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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Agreed. And not just religions, either: the Republicans, for example, would be well served to silence Pat Robertson.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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Mikey wrote:Agreed. And not just religions, either: the Republicans, for example, would be well served to silence Pat Robertson.
Is that lunatic still around? How the hell do people like that keep getting elected? My guess is that a lot of party hard-liners just always vote Republican or Democrat without actually learning a candidate's politics.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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Mikey wrote:Agreed. And not just religions, either: the Republicans, for example, would be well served to silence Pat Robertson.
It leads me to wonder, if he hasn't been silenced than perhaps the majority of the GOP have the same beliefs but won't own up to it.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

Post by Mikey »

I tend to think (and hope) that the prevailing idea is "If I speak out against Robertson (or Buchanan, or...) then the other kids won't think I'm Republican enough."
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

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I think that's a likely explanation Mikey, I also think there is an unspoken "gentleman's agreement" within the GOP that you do not bash the loonie religious right. Somehow I have a hard time picturing millionaires and billionaires with three divorces, two affairs and an abortion under their belt honestly care about gay marriage, abortion clinics or prayer in schools. Yet that camp won't bring in millions of undereducated red state voters and the loonie religious fringe will, so your cliche unholy alliance is born. Not to mention all the tax-exempt money that "Family Values" and various parapolitical church organizations can raise under the guise of being religious or non-profit for campaigns. (Interesting that when a reverend of a west coast church criticized Bush and the Iraq War very early on, the IRS immediately began considering revoking his church's tax exempt status, but these organizations whose sole purpose is overturning Roe v. Wade or adding a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage or inserting creationism into Federally mandated public school curriculum have been around for decades untouched.)

I'd add though that I don't think we should ever hope that someone's only reason for supporting something unsupportable is just because they want to conform enough in the conformity crowd.
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Re: Gay marriage arguments

Post by Mikey »

I'd like to hope that as well, Dusk, but my inborn cynicism doesn't normally let me.
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