Carrier

[Mikey]

Welcome back, Deep!

And, uh, oh yeah - I had mentioned that the primary usefulness of "fighter" type craft would be as strike vehicles, in support of ground-pounding operations, and as picket/mop-up vehicles.

But I take your agreement as a vote of confidence.

[mwhittington]

Nice to have ya back, Deep! I love to read your rants! And I agree that they need some type of carrier in ST for the F/Bs to organize squadrons and coordinate attacks, like a carrier is supposed to do.Whether they use the Peregrine Class or mass produce the Delta Flyer or even turn out the Valkryie Class in the old Playstation game Star Trek: Invasion, they would need a carrier as a base of operations.

[Sionnach Glic]

And Deep runs straight back into the ranting.
Good to have you back.

[Mikey]

And Deep runs straight back into the ranting.
Good to have you back.

Isn't that like saying, "And the sun keeps rising."

I take it from the legibility of your post that you are back in a normal-keyboard country, Rochey?

[Sionnach Glic]

No, merely typing slower and more carefully. Who the frack decided to put the goddamn M button over there?

[Reliant121]

I'm just getting back but this thread pissed me off. To many people trying to think in modern terms about carriers in ST. THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

First off, Carriers 'In Universe' for Star Trek are shown in the worst possible light as the writers carry the "Battleships Only" idea. As we have seen the IQ needed for the use of combined arms does not exist in ST. Writers who couldn't beat a broken brick in a spelling test are trying to show a style of warfare that makes zero sense. The proper deployment of a Carrier in ST would be in support of large fleet actions during war or border patrol during peace time. Reasons to follow, but not yet. A carrier in ST would in no way need to be built like one of modern concern. They don't need a runway for craft to launch and by no means would they have to be useless or easy targets in ship to ship combat. They just wouldn't be the best. The carrier's best use would be as a C&C ship using its craft to support skirmish units or pick off wounded ships to allow your big guns to continue on elsewhere. To say a carrier is useless in battle is just plain stupid. There is a use and a very important use even though it is a far different one. A carrier could be something as simple as a GCS that has been modified to carry craft instead of sci-depts. GCS have massive launch bays and cargo bays. Some simple changes would make for a nasty surprise.

Second off, the craft as I have spoken. The word fighter fails to really explain them. They are not fighters, call them F/B's for terms of use but they are not stand alone fighter craft. Nor are they true bombers, bombers don't dogfight but we've seen the craft do this. They have also been shown to carry PTs and act in swarms to overtake an enemy ship. The marquis used a group of them to bring down a Galor class starship. One of those couldn't even dent a Galor but in numbers were able to mass fire PTs and Phasers which combined to their victory. Now a Galor is not much but the G'H Bugs are even weaker. I would bet that a small group of F/Bs would do well to engage at Bug. If the Bug rams one then you lose a pilot or two but you'd take out the Bug or damage it so badly that your other F/Bs wouldn't have to much trouble to finish the Bug off. In short, use the craft as fighter/bombers and mix both roles into one. They can't win the battle for you but they can do a fair share of hurt and give your enemy that many more targets to have to deal with.

Lastly, proper use of the two. The carrier as said should act as a C&C ship / support ship. A couple of these in a battle would really help organize the actions of the fleet overall. The f/b should act in mass waves. When the two fleets meet and come together send your f/b wings to attack escorts and cruisers. Don't send them in first as this will just get them picked apart for no good reason. Each f/b carries 4 or 6 PTs, so a wing of them being about 50 in number could bring 200 to 300 PTs onto a target. That would hurt! A squadron against an escort ship (Bug, Breen, BoP, and the likes) and pair or trio of squadrons against a cruiser. For the big bang you would gather your hole wing and use it on an enemy battleship. The key is making sure that the F/Bs are used as support. Not the main attack force. Keep them back until you've mixed it up with the enemy. In SoA the fighters did fair harm to the cardis but Dukat soaked up the losses not because they weren't doing any harm but because he had 2000 ships on the way and he didn't have to care about the toll. If Sisko would have attacked with everything at once and used his fighters to zip about hitting targets of opportunity then he could have faired better.

DEEP!! OH MY GOD!!!

- Mad glomp attack -

[stitch626]

Nice explination Deep. Very nice. Your point about the "fighters" is very true, they are capable of (and sort of used for) being bombers.
So, should we call them figombers?

[Mikey]

Nice explination Deep. Very nice. Your point about the "fighters" is very true, they are capable of (and sort of used for) being bombers.
So, should we call them figombers?

How about just "strike" or "attack" craft?

[stitch626]

Oh, that does make more sense than what I suggested.

[mlsnoopy]

Each f/b carries 4 or 6 PTs, so a wing of them being about 50 in number could bring 200 to 300 PTs onto a target.

These is the only problem that I have with the usefullness of f/b. Why some people here think that a single F/B could fire 4-6 PT. That is a more powerfull torpedo system that the Defiant or the Intrepid class have.

[Mikey]

Each f/b carries 4 or 6 PTs, so a wing of them being about 50 in number could bring 200 to 300 PTs onto a target.

These is the only problem that I have with the usefullness of f/b. Why some people here think that a single F/B could fire 4-6 PT. That is a more powerfull torpedo system that the Defiant or the Intrepid class have.

What? Are you saying that the Defiant or Intrepid classes only have a magazine of 6 torpedoes? Nobody said that one of theses attack craft could fire 4-6 torpedoes in one salvo.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Nice explination Deep. Very nice. Your point about the "fighters" is very true, they are capable of (and sort of used for) being bombers.
So, should we call them figombers?

How about just "strike" or "attack" craft?

Actually FB is the standard designation for a fighter-bomber. It was the designation for a bomber variant of the F-22 Raptors called the FB-22 Strike Rapter(although it was appearently cancelled in 06 in favor of a bomber with longer range).

[Mikey]

Yep. And they are often referred to colloquially as "strike fighters."

Or attack, as in the F/A-18 Hornet and SuperHornet.

[Mark]

Just a crazy idea. What about something similar to a Battlestar? It could deliver large support to a centeralized location, and conduct fighter support missions as well?

(In an old ST RPG game i played in, we crossed over the original Battlestar Galactica with our TNG universe. After our Galaxy Class eliminated a dozen or so Basestars, the Colonials joined the UFP, and we developed a Treked out version of a Battlestar. Slow, but nearly invincible)

[Deepcrush]

Its not a bad idea. A GCS could carry a lot of fighter craft. The Deltaflyer is a good ship. Some small mods would make a nice F/B.