Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

sunnyside wrote:In the Federation it seems they'll fix you using things they have if you're really messed up but not if you're just somewhat messed up. For example the VISOR supposedly lets Geordi see all sorts of extra stuff. Presumably they'd be popular with other engineers, but only he gets one.
There was a doctor assisting on Picards heart surgery that had one. Seeing as we only see two examples I'd guess that (despite what Geordi claims) this is a SF perk.
They're probably especially finiky with biological mods after the augment wars (and the return of Khan).
That was four hundred years previous to TNG, if RL human society is any judge it would have passed out of memory and probably out of the records as well. And how many people outside of SF would have known about Khan's return?
And there isn't anything they can really do if a mother wants to go on a bender, so FAS is a possibility. They also wouldn't do anything about purely genetic issues.
Maybe the Federation is populated by futuristic Calvinists. :wink:
As for Nature vs Nurture. I dunno. While you do get bisexuals who could go either way based on the culture they're in, it seems some people are just gay despite extreme efforts by parents and community to bring them up straight. I'm saying that it seems to be that you wind up on a spectrum of sexual orientation biologically and then can be nurtured from there to some degree.
I only have anecdotal evidence to go on unfortunately. The few bi's that I know basically all say that a major factor in their sexuality was that it was vigourisly opposed by their parents (sometimes violently) and that they felt the desire to try it out even more because of it. Then there's the various statements of feeling curious from a very young age (six or so) and expermenting then.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

Monroe wrote:I actually made a thread on this awhile back. I just think its been 'cured' in Star Trek.
It's a fair assumption but cured how and why?

I have heard that there is actually a gay character in the Titan books, of course using the official canon that's meaningless.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Monroe »

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=179&hilit=gay

Here's the original thread. Here I thought I was the one who came up with it.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Mikey »

sunnyside wrote:As for Nature vs Nurture. I dunno. While you do get bisexuals who could go either way based on the culture they're in, it seems some people are just gay despite extreme efforts by parents and community to bring them up straight. I'm saying that it seems to be that you wind up on a spectrum of sexual orientation biologically and then can be nurtured from there to some degree.
In the phrase "nature vs. nurture," the term nurture doesn't necessarily refer to an intentional effort; rather, to all the outside forces which socialize and shape tendencies.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Assuming that this "cure" for gayness existed, what makes you think anybody in the Federation would use it? As I understand it one of the core idea of Trek is that bigotry of that kind is meant to have died out a long time ago; we may dispute the realism of that, but it is supposed to have happened. So why would anybody bother with this treatment?
certainly homosexuality isn't bred out the way you would expect.
It's not at all certain that homosexuality being purely genetic would lead to it being bred out.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Mikey »

GK makes an excellent point - obviously, the UFP isn't under any particular Darwinian pressure to increase it's birth rate; so failing that or outright bigotry, what reason is there to eliminate homosexuality?
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

Mikey wrote:GK makes an excellent point - obviously, the UFP isn't under any particular Darwinian pressure to increase it's birth rate; so failing that or outright bigotry, what reason is there to eliminate homosexuality?
It wasn't breed out during periods in human history were population really mattered. Hard to believe it would be in the Federation.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Captain Seafort »

GrahamKennedy wrote:As I understand it one of the core idea of Trek is that bigotry of that kind is meant to have died out a long time ago; we may dispute the realism of that, but it is supposed to have happened.
STVI seems to refute that rather emphatically.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

Captain Seafort wrote: STVI seems to refute that rather emphatically.
So does O'Brien.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by sunnyside »

What are you ugys referencing? There was anti gay stuff in Trek? I find that hard to believe.

And again I'm not talking about a cure in the classic sense. I'm saying that hormonal treatments used to cause proper development could possibly prevent or reduce the tendency for homosexuality (both in the real world and especially in Trek).
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Nah. They're pointing out that bigotry most certainly still exists in 'Trek.

O'Brien: " I don't hate you, Cardassian. I hate what I became because of you."

Great stuff.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

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"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I've never been able to forgive them for the death of my boy."
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

sunnyside wrote:What are you ugys referencing? There was anti gay stuff in Trek? I find that hard to believe.
The Big E crew in STVI was very racist towards the Klingons, "only top of the line models can even talk". O'Brien hated the Cardies and his former Captain on the Phoenix did as well.
And again I'm not talking about a cure in the classic sense. I'm saying that hormonal treatments used to cause proper development could possibly prevent or reduce the tendency for homosexuality (both in the real world and especially in Trek).
I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, I have a hard time seeing why they'd do that and ignore all the other things. I also have a hard time seeing why they'd design a treatment for A that would screw up B.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Captain Seafort wrote:"I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will. I've never been able to forgive them for the death of my boy."
That's actually one of my all-time favorite Kirk moments, when he says that out loud. You just know the anger has been building for years...

Like I said, great stuff.
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Re: Is it possible there won't be homosexuals in the future?

Post by Aaron »

Tsukiyumi wrote:
That's actually one of my all-time favorite Kirk moments, when he says that out loud. You just know the anger has been building for years...

Like I said, great stuff.
Alot of people seem to miss the message that STVI was about over coming bigotry, they just see cool ships.
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