Who do you want to win the US elections?

[Captain Seafort]

If you ban copkiller bullets, next they'll want your hunting rifle.

If you conduct diplomacy with problem nations, next you'll be subjugating the U.S. to the world court and U.N. authority.

And the problem with any of this is what, exactly? Rifles I can understand in areas where there's a threat (to either life or livelihood) from wild animals, but all other weapons should be under government (preferably military) control. As for holding the US accountable to international authority, I fail to see any problems with it.

[Tsukiyumi]

I don't even want to start that discussion again, Seafort. My opinion is that you must have never lived anywhere where there is a constant and credible threat to your life, and cops take hours to respond, if they show up at all. If other people want to leave their safety to someone else, good for them. I know as a verified fact that I am more qualified to operate and maintain a firearm than the majority of police in my city, and my safety is in my hands.

[Duskofdead]

If you ban copkiller bullets, next they'll want your hunting rifle.

If you conduct diplomacy with problem nations, next you'll be subjugating the U.S. to the world court and U.N. authority.

And the problem with any of this is what, exactly? Rifles I can understand in areas where there's a threat (to either life or livelihood) from wild animals, but all other weapons should be under government (preferably military) control. As for holding the US accountable to international authority, I fail to see any problems with it.

I have no problem with it. In fact one of the idiosyncracies of the Republican mindset is the preoccupation with gun ownership while at the same time the preoccupation with crime. They think they're safer by having guns (hordes of black people out there want to kill you, and home invasions!!) yet people having guns is a rather big factor in crime, suicide, accidents, and crimes of passion (find out your wife is cheating, etc.)

I would be willing (let's assume I'm a politcian, which I'm not) to compromise on the issue provided there was more comprehensive qualification requirements for owning a gun-- I'm sorry but being a toothless redneck with a half a high school education and a drinking and temper problem shouldn't be acceptable grounds to own a gun just because you're in Amerikuh. You should have to pass a psych eval (at your own expense) just like cops do. The Virginia Tech shooting was the quintessential example of how utterly lax present gun ownership laws are, especially in areas like the South where people are happy to thumb their nose at the idea that anyone who wants a gun shouldn't be kept from having one. Here's a kid with severe mental problems and a long documented history of therapy and depressive and anger issues, walking into a store and, according to state laws, perfectly qualifying to purchase firearms.

As far as international stuff, I agree with you, though Americans largely aren't ready for it. The idea that the U.N. and any international body is a tool to be used for PR to do what America wants, and proudly rejected if it ever applies the same rules to America, is a case of America being an immature, insecure nation and it will have to grow out of that sooner or later, especially if it wants to be a world leader.

[Captain Seafort]

As far as international stuff, I agree with you, though Americans largely aren't ready for it. The idea that the U.N. and any international body is a tool to be used for PR to do what America wants, and proudly rejected if it ever applies the same rules to America, is a case of America being an immature, insecure nation and it will have to grow out of that sooner or later, especially if it wants to be a world leader.

More to the point, America's "we say jump, you ask how high" approach to international relations will have to change as its relative strength plummets. From Iraqi insurgents, to the Saudis refusing to boost oil production to reduce US petrol prices, to the rising political clout of the EU, China, India, Russia, etc Washington is having the fact hammered down its throat that the unipolar world is coming to an end.

[Captain Seafort]

I don't even want to start that discussion again, Seafort. My opinion is that you must have never lived anywhere where there is a constant and credible threat to your life, and cops take hours to respond, if they show up at all.

No I don't. The fact that you evidently do is a damning indictment of the United States' claim to be a civilised country.

If other people want to leave their safety to someone else, good for them. I know as a verified fact that I am more qualified to operate and maintain a firearm than the majority of police in my city, and my safety is in my hands.

It's not a question of who's more qualified. It's a question of legitimacy. To be honest I don't like the idea of the police being armed, let alone any Tom, Dick or Harry who walks into a gun shop. A fundamental characteristic of a civilised state is that the state has a monopoly on the legal use of force. Letting the entire population take the law into their own hands, as the current legislation in the US permits, is an invitation for anarchy. Whether implimenting a sane gun-control regime in the US is feasable, given the sheer extent of gun ownership, is another matter

[Tsukiyumi]

Believe me, the second they lock up the last gang member and psychopath (who'd kill you with a bat or knife if guns were unavailable), and there are literally no more left, I'll be the first person in line to turn over my weapon.

If you saw the people that live around me, you'd know that any claim of civility in the US is greatly exaggerated.

[Duskofdead]

Believe me, the second they lock up the last gang member and psychopath (who'd kill you with a bat or knife if guns were unavailable), and there are literally no more left, I'll be the first person in line to turn over my weapon.

If you saw the people that live around me, you'd know that any claim of civility in the US is greatly exaggerated.

I have a samurai sword and a crossbow. Crossbows are great. They're legal, they're powerful, and quiet.

[sunnyside]

And the problem with any of this is what, exactly? Rifles I can understand in areas where there's a threat (to either life or livelihood) from wild animals, but all other weapons should be under government (preferably military) control. As for holding the US accountable to international authority, I fail to see any problems with it.

I think this addresses the "slippery slope"issue better than I could.

I have no problem with it. In fact one of the idiosyncracies of the Republican mindset is the preoccupation with gun ownership while at the same time the preoccupation with crime. They think they're safer by having guns (hordes of black people out there want to kill you, and home invasions!!) yet people having guns is a rather big factor in crime, suicide, accidents, and crimes of passion (find out your wife is cheating, etc.)

I suppose this runs the threat of a side track.

But they are safer with their guns. If you live in a big city in America it means either you're particularily insulated or you know people who have been mugged/attacked , and have a fair chance of knowing someone who was raped, burgled, or been in a much more serious violent confrontation.

I also know some people who have had these things not happen to them due to a firearm (though I don't know anyone who has actually had to fire the firearm, just showing it has always sufficed).

Anyway they are safer, and have little confidence in the ability of laws to remove firearms from criminals any better than it keeps drugs out of their hands.

Also most gun crime and killings and such is happening in areas that aren't republican anyway.

Though stuff like the college shootings has gotten even them behind some legislation, I beleive some psych stuff has already passed or is chugging right along. Though not as intensive or subjective as Dusks.

[Duskofdead]

If restrictions/bans wouldn't make us any safer, why do we have something like 500-1,000x the gun murders of countries with tougher restrictions?

[Tsukiyumi]

On the other hand, a pistol instantly levels the field for a diminutive woman against a physically superior male rapist. Also, for people with disabilities.

I've argued this point before; I could most certainly kill someone with a spoon by jamming it into their trachea. I don't think a ban on spoons would reduce the risk (extreme example). Basically, I'm saying that if someone is intent on murder, or assault, they can use a bat, a prybar, a pencil, or even their bare hands to make it happen. Guns are a hell of an equalizer for people who can't flee, or are physically incapable of adequate defense against any of those threats.

[sunnyside]

If gun rights make you less safe why didn't the whole of Switzerland turn into a warzone long ago? Instead they have a very low gun crime rate despite requirements for a fair chunk of the population to own one and few restrictions on the rest.

I really should keep a list of links somewhere. But when you look at regions of the US that have enacted gun control laws they have not become safer, usually worse, and in regions that pass laws that people figured would result in a bloodbath often the rates of gun crime go down.

[Duskofdead]

If gun rights make you less safe why didn't the whole of Switzerland turn into a warzone long ago? Instead they have a very low gun crime rate despite requirements for a fair chunk of the population to own one and few restrictions on the rest.

I really should keep a list of links somewhere. But when you look at regions of the US that have enacted gun control laws they have not become safer, usually worse, and in regions that pass laws that people figured would result in a bloodbath often the rates of gun crime go down.

Whether the difference (which is rather massive) between our homicide rates and another country's are related to gun laws or cultural ends up not mattering too much, because it sounds like you're saying "well Americans are psychopaths who murder a lot anyway, so we might as well have guns."

If we're that unstable as a culture, putting a gun in everyone's hand isn't my idea of a good idea.

[stitch626]

Believe me, the second they lock up the last gang member and psychopath (who'd kill you with a bat or knife if guns were unavailable), and there are literally no more left, I'll be the first person in line to turn over my weapon.

If you saw the people that live around me, you'd know that any claim of civility in the US is greatly exaggerated.

I have a samurai sword and a crossbow. Crossbows are great. They're legal, they're powerful, and quiet.

Crossbows aren't legal everywhere. Not where I live. (they fall under "there is no permit for them, so you can't use them")

[Duskofdead]

Believe me, the second they lock up the last gang member and psychopath (who'd kill you with a bat or knife if guns were unavailable), and there are literally no more left, I'll be the first person in line to turn over my weapon.

If you saw the people that live around me, you'd know that any claim of civility in the US is greatly exaggerated.

I have a samurai sword and a crossbow. Crossbows are great. They're legal, they're powerful, and quiet.

Crossbows aren't legal everywhere. Not where I live. (they fall under "there is no permit for them, so you can't use them")

Well like with samurai swords, you can't walk into airports with them and you wouldn't want to walk around on the street with one sharp enough to qualify as a blade over six inches or whatever the local legal limit is in your area. But so far as I know having collectibles in your house and using one for self defense would not be illegal anymore than hitting them with a frying pan or a baseball bat.

[Tsukiyumi]

...But so far as I know having collectibles in your house and using one for self defense would not be illegal anymore than hitting them with a frying pan or a baseball bat.

Here in Texas at least, it's perfectly legal to own however many weapons you want, in your home. You have to pass extremely thorough tests to carry one, though.

On the subject of collectable blades, is your sword sharpened, or display-only? I got my grandfather's WW2 bayonet when he died last year, and it's awesome. I love it for sentimental reasons as well as historical and utility reasons; I'm quite proud to own it.