Principle harrases homosexual students

[Duskofdead]

...or how many decades old their textbooks are right?

I remember my high school books were from the early seventies.

U.S. public education is atrocious overall. A huge number of the people attending the most competitive schools are from private school backgrounds. That's another part of this whole problem but honestly I don't see much reason to hope Americans are serious about changing it anytime soon. Cause it costs money... tax money. We'd rather give it to Blackwater.

[Mikey]

Or "No Child Left Behind" - spend money to detract from education rather than enhance it.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Or "No Child Left Behind" - spend money to detract from education rather than enhance it.

We should do something like NCLB with the soldiers. "You got to take these tests, and if you fail we shoot you in the leg. Then you have to take the tests again, and if you fail again we shoot you in the other leg" That'll motivate them to find Osama

[Duskofdead]

Or "No Child Left Behind" - spend money to detract from education rather than enhance it.

True that. What's amazing is that such a horrible piece of trash legislation, people seem to generally think is good, just cause Bush says so and the title says so. But people LOVE the idea that if something is bad, low performing, or someone isn't doing a job great, they should be FINANCIALLY PUNISHED! People feel very smart and empowered getting on board about that. So what happens of course is as we know... poor schools get poorer. Instead of more incentive for quality people to teach there, there is now less. And don't even get me started on standardized testing and how overboard it's gone as a substitute for actually putting up the resources to really EDUCATE in our schools, rather than teach students to jump through specific hoops.

[Mikey]

Exactly - let's take financial help AWAY from the schools that demonstrate a need for it.

Plus, force teachers to "teach to the tests" instead of teaching an actual useful curriculum.

[Tsukiyumi]

Or "No Child Left Behind" - spend money to detract from education rather than enhance it.

We should do something like NCLB with the soldiers. "You got to take these tests, and if you fail we shoot you in the leg. Then you have to take the tests again, and if you fail again we shoot you in the other leg" That'll motivate them to find Osama

If you replace "soldier" with "bureaucrat", it might work.

[Mikey]

Now you're talking!

Can we shoot them even if they pass?

[Sionnach Glic]

We should do something like NCLB with the soldiers. "You got to take these tests, and if you fail we shoot you in the leg. Then you have to take the tests again, and if you fail again we shoot you in the other leg" That'll motivate them to find Osama

At least with that plan the soldiers have an incentive to pass: not getting shot.
What incentive do the kids have? Damn all.

I remember my high school books were from the early seventies.

WTF?
Is it really that bad that they can't afford new books?

[Duskofdead]

WTF?
Is it really that bad that they can't afford new books?

In a word, yes. Some very small number of the best public schools in rich areas are probably "almost" on par with western European first world school systems in terms of staying up to date and such. But as for the rest, the large majority of schools (even ones that aren't horrifically bad in poverty stricken areas) have textbooks 10, 15 years old and of course no one wants to be a teacher in the U.S. anymore. Risk of lawsuit, totally unsupportive parents, kids accusing you of sexual harassment, low pay, low budget, and having to teach the test. Most teachers I had paid a lot of classroom expenses (such as photocopying, or anything like construction paper or anything needed for a special sort of assignment in class) out of pocket. And it's not like teachers make a chunk of change to begin with, so it's a pretty sad state.

[Sionnach Glic]

Jesus, I new things weren't great over there, but I never thought it was that bad.
Remind me never to go to work in the US.

[sunnyside]

Actually on schools it varies wildly place to place.

For example I come from the country in Iowa. As in the nearest human beings were a half mile away, and then next nearest a full mile. And we had horses, and enough firearms to lead a revolution... but I'm straying from the point which is that we had solid public schools. Consistantly boasting high graduation rates and top tier standardized test scores. Also free college classes at a local university if you were advanced enough to finish the classes the high school offered.

And now out in Philadelphia I know that if you live out in the Suburbs in the McMansion sections the public schools are better than most private schools and teacher salaries are in the $70,000+ range. Simply because of the high amount of property tax generated per student for people living in McMansions.

But then you have the inner city phily schools where it isn't so much a question of whether a student will get stabbed/shot to death this year, but a question of how many.

[Sionnach Glic]

Actually on schools it varies wildly place to place.

For example I come from the country in Iowa. As in the nearest human beings were a half mile away, and then next nearest a full mile. And we had horses, and enough firearms to lead a revolution... but I'm straying from the point which is that we had solid public schools. Consistantly boasting high graduation rates and top tier standardized test scores. Also free college classes at a local university if you were advanced enough to finish the classes the high school offered.

And now out in Philadelphia I know that if you live out in the Suburbs in the McMansion sections the public schools are better than most private schools and teacher salaries are in the $70,000+ range. Simply because of the high amount of property tax generated per student for people living in McMansions.

That's good to hear. Still, the fact that so many seem to be crap is rather worrying.

But then you have the inner city phily schools where it isn't so much a question of whether a student will get stabbed/shot to death this year, but a question of how many.

Jeez, you guys have serious problems with that stuff.

[Duskofdead]

Actually on schools it varies wildly place to place.

For example I come from the country in Iowa. As in the nearest human beings were a half mile away, and then next nearest a full mile. And we had horses, and enough firearms to lead a revolution... but I'm straying from the point which is that we had solid public schools. Consistantly boasting high graduation rates and top tier standardized test scores. Also free college classes at a local university if you were advanced enough to finish the classes the high school offered.

And now out in Philadelphia I know that if you live out in the Suburbs in the McMansion sections the public schools are better than most private schools and teacher salaries are in the $70,000+ range. Simply because of the high amount of property tax generated per student for people living in McMansions.

But then you have the inner city phily schools where it isn't so much a question of whether a student will get stabbed/shot to death this year, but a question of how many.

Right as I said.... a small number of schools in the richest areas are pretty good and the teachers well paid. Although teacher pay varies state to state, it's still a very generally true statement that if you are qualified to be a good teacher, you are very likely qualified to make a lot more money doing something else. Only people who either can't do something else or feel some sort of genuine calling to teach tend to do so.

And yes, public schools being funded off property taxes from the local community is crap, cause it means that areas with 20x the property taxes they need to fund a first rate world class school stay only in that area, while a slum 10 miles away is wracking up state deficit spending to even stay open at all. It's a feudal system and frankly the richest people have their kids in private schools anyway so where money is most plentiful, it is being wasted, and where it's needed, it's not going. If that makes sense.

The school budget needs to be a flat pot nationwide with all schools funded the same needed to bring them up to the same standard level, as in the UK. And that standard level, and the corresponding budget, should be high-- certainly higher than it is right now. It's a bumper sticker snippet but also true that in California, we are #1 in prison spending and #50 in school spending. Even Rhode Island spends more on schools than we do. And as long as about half the voting base of the U.S. are people who don't pay ANY attention to politics, WHATSOEVER, they just want to vote for whoever is against any sort of tax for any sort of reason, and go back to sipping lattes, that's not going to change.

[Mikey]

That's a great idea, Dusk, but unfortunately somewhat idealistic. Where does the money come from if not from property tax - or some other form of tax, which generally would lead to the same situation? It's not coming from Abbott programs, because Abbott districts can barely support their current status quo. State-issued funding invariably cuts into transportation trusts, which ends up costing EVERY program - education included - more in the long run; in addition, it leads to removing control of local schools from local decision-makers. I've seen that happen enough in my own state, and it generally makes matters more confused, if not just plain worse.

My own high school was a heterogenous mix, and drew equally on rather rural areas, suburbia, and more urban areas - yet despite your own experience, we were able to maintain a high standard of education, and excellent graduation rates and standardized test scores, even with some "inner-city" populace. Schools need more money than they're currently getting, yes - but JUST more money isn't a solution to anything.

[Teaos]

I wonder why Rochey and Bryan and Graham all teach. Them all seem like the type who really wanted to.