Your political ideology

[sunnyside]

I agree it had a downshift in tax burden but I dont agree thats a bad thing.

From a Libertarian that's all I can ask.

It is more prone to monopolys but not extreamly so. But even under the current system we get them and they are not the total evil most people try to make them out to be.

The last bit should tell anyone whose read this far a fair bit. But under the current system we have( and use) antitrust laws that do a fair job of preventing monopolies and unfair business practices.

Microsoft being a recent example. But attempted buyouts that get held up happen all the time.

I don't agree with the crushing of the poor though.

Really? Try again explaining what you expect to happen to all of them? And before you say that so much money will be spouting out of the ground that some will get on them how about expaining why the countries with the lowest corp taxes still have to have and continually raise minimum wage laws.

Ah but those bank loans and many of the scholarships are subsidized by the hated government.

They dont have to be.

Again they would be given out if the school/bank expected to turn a profit. This is true for the already rich or at least solid middle class.

I get the right to not wear a seat belt, to smoke and do what ever I like to my own body with out it either being illegal to taxed to hell.

I suppose those actually do fall a bit under the Libertarian big picture since much of the reason for those laws is to lower health care costs.

I want the right to defend my property with out worrying about the guy robbing me sueing me.

You can do that in the US (except a couple odd spots). Though if you want the right to shoot anyone who happened to be on your property no questions asked you might need some new laws.

I want to be able to spank my kids when they are naughty.

Still legal in all 50 states. Though I think the odd law gets proposed here or there.

Now if you want to spank someone elses kids that could get you in trouble. As could beating your kid bloody with a nine iron.

I want to be able to write an editorial about how the govenrnment is **** with out breaking the law.

done hundreds of times a day in papers all over the US.

I dont want free specch zones.

Good because you wouldn't have them. All land is private and if they don't like what you're saying you have three seconds to start running, boy.

I dont want wire taps and unwarrent search for my own good.

Good because the Libertarian phone company is free to tap you for whatever reason they feel like. And if you rent your place can also be searched for whatever reason. (And I don't know that even)

In the US the unwarrented searches could be stopped by simply not renewing in Patriot Act. Don't need the Libertarian model for that.

I dont want to register my car since it serves no ******* point.

License plates do come in handy when catching criminals.

I want to be able to hire a white guy who is qualified for the job with out worrying the maori guy I didnt is gonna call racist. I want the right to call my kid Captain Pugwash with out being told I cant. I want gay people to be able to marry and I want religions to stop getting a free ride.

All things that can come to pass without the Libertarian model. And might well come to pass in the US. Actually they all probably will.

And again you haven't (except once accidentally), listed anything you gain from the Libertarian finiancial model.

[Teaos]

Really? Try again explaining what you expect to happen to all of them?

I'm about to go out but I'll hit this when I get home.

You can do that in the US (except a couple odd spots). Though if you want the right to shoot anyone who happened to be on your property no questions asked you might need some new laws.

Not here. And I hear reports of criminals sueing the places they tried to rob before and winning. Its not wide spread but it shows a serious flaw in the legal system that it can happen at all.

Still legal in all 50 states. Though I think the odd law gets proposed here or there.

Not here but the law is up for review.

done hundreds of times a day in papers all over the US.

Recent law passed around here. Can't slander politicans in election year.

Good because you wouldn't have them. All land is private and if they don't like what you're saying you have three seconds to start running, boy.

Thats not true. There is public land in Libertaraianism. It comes from donated ground and trust groups.

Good because the Libertarian phone company is free to tap you for whatever reason they feel like.

Then you switch to a company that doesnt tap your phone and the one that does will go bankrupt due to no one using them.

License plates do come in handy when catching criminals.

I'm not sure what regestering a car does in your country but here it involves sending $150 dollars and a letter every 6 months saying that I still own my car. How the fuck does that help anyone? Do it once when you buy the car.

And might well come to pass in the US. Actually they all probably will.

I highly doubt that. The way your country is going its shifting more and more right which means less right not more.

And again you haven't (except once accidentally), listed anything you gain from the Libertarian finiancial model.

Define gain.

If by that you mean how is everyone better off financially I'll hit that latter tonight.

What I think the benifit is, is that everyone has control over their own money. I dont care if everyone is worse off due to it so long as its their choices that lead to that result. Personal choice should never be taken away and it is under any other government type.

[sunnyside]

Ok yeah you guys are getting fairly socialist over there, and the election year thing is a little worrying. But again just because you aren't socialist doesn't mean you have to be Libertarian.

For the record we have vehicle registration like that here too. But it's 1/10th the amount. I think it's mostly an extra tax. I can think of other reasons, but I don't know for sure about them.

As for the US note that the Democrats took control of both the House and Senate and were considered a sure thing for the presidency before the debacle with Hillary and Obama (especially Hillary going apeshit on Obama).

But still most of what you're talking about are things you could get from a Republican candidate who decides they like smoking pot.

What Libertarianism really brings to the table is:

1. Near or total removal of taxes/government coupled with the privitization/deregulation of everything. And thus removal of all government anti-trust laws, most environmental laws, government assistance, and people have to pay for all service.

2. Property as an avenue for rights (you functionally have rights as a result of owning property, you carry essentially no rights with you onto other property, just the right to not be attacked without a chance to run for it).

So the question is aside from the ability for the rich to become far more wealthy and vastly more powerful, possibly fuctionally soveriegn within a region, and the fact that the poor or low class can be crushed, what does this system provide that you want.

Just that you think you might get a functional 20% raise or something depending on how much you make?

[Sionnach Glic]

Ok yeah you guys are getting fairly socialist over there, and the election year thing is a little worrying.

"Fairly socialist"? We are still talking about the USA, right?

[Teaos]

"Fairly socialist"? We are still talking about the USA, right?

No, NZ.

1. Near or total removal of taxes/government coupled with the privitization/deregulation of everything. And thus removal of all government anti-trust laws, most environmental laws, government assistance, and people have to pay for all service.

Your going extream again like anyone who argues against it.

2. Property as an avenue for rights (you functionally have rights as a result of owning property, you carry essentially no rights with you onto other property, just the right to not be attacked without a chance to run for it).

The problem with that is?

[Sionnach Glic]

No, NZ.

Ah, right. Sorry, need to pay more attention.

[sunnyside]

1. Near or total removal of taxes/government coupled with the privitization/deregulation of everything. And thus removal of all government anti-trust laws, most environmental laws, government assistance, and people have to pay for all service.

Your going extream again like anyone who argues against it.

Um. No I'm not. That's standard middle of the road Libertarianism. Extreme would be anarcho-capitalism (privatizing things like the police force and military). However it seems a significant chunk in the libertarian party wants that anyway.

Once you start scaling some of those things back you're getting close to just being a Republican that likes to smoke pot.

2. Property as an avenue for rights (you functionally have rights as a result of owning property, you carry essentially no rights with you onto other property, just the right to not be attacked without a chance to run for it).

The problem with that is?

Well in the US you'd get a whole lot of obvious bigotry, again you already might be pretty racially pure over there and so avoid that.

Sexual harassment? Perfectly legal. It really is put out or get out.

But the bottom line is that you're actually putting yourself in a position to lose a lot of rights. Especially if local monopolies where it becomes, litterally, a company town, come to fruition.

And it means you create an underclass of renters with functionaly no rights. (Well I suppose they could be given rights by their landlords, but there is no guarantee of this).

And it might fall under the above thing but you leave youself open to pretty nasty business practices. Nothing in Libertarianism I've heard of would prevent someone who owned the power company from just shutting the juice off to a competitor in an industry they're trying to buy up.

Nor would it stop someone from shutting down all road travel into or out of a city except what they want to get through. Presuming they own the roads in an out.

And again, at least in the US the US all you get in the model is the ability to be a sexually harassing bigot.

The stuff most people agree with you could get via the back and forth of democrats and republicans in power. Certainly if there was ever enough support to actually make Libertarianism happen you'd already have the marijuana type laws passing.

[Duskofdead]

2. Property as an avenue for rights (you functionally have rights as a result of owning property, you carry essentially no rights with you onto other property, just the right to not be attacked without a chance to run for it).

The problem with that is?

Seriously Teaos, you don't see the problem there? This is the real world, not a college polysci course. We've had rights for property owners only before, it's called Feudalism.

[stitch626]

No, NZ.

Ah, right. Sorry, need to pay more attention.

You're not the only one, I'm confused.
Fun to read though.

[sunnyside]

If others are in here what are your thoughts on the Libertarianism?

[Sionnach Glic]

Seems to close to anarchy for my tastes. I don't like the idea of Average Joe Moron having that much authority.

[Tsukiyumi]

Seems to close to anarchy for my tastes. I don't like the idea of Average Joe Moron having that much authority.

To quote Lisa Simpson, " ...Do you know how dumb average is?"

[stitch626]

Watch an ep of Jaywalking (part of the Tonight Show with Jay Leno) and you will see some unfortunatly average people.
Honestly, some are dumber than dirt (no offense, dirt)

[Tsukiyumi]

Watch an ep of Jaywalking (part of the Tonight Show with Jay Leno) and you will see some unfortunatly average people.
Honestly, some are dumber than dirt (no offense, dirt)

Yeah, dude. No need to insult dirt.

[Teaos]

This is the real world, not a college polysci course. We've had rights for property owners only before, it's called Feudalism.

Read the debate before you go trying to take the high road.