Clinton's campaign goes "nuclear"

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Sionnach Glic
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Clinton's campaign goes "nuclear"

Post by Sionnach Glic »



Clinton Camp Considering Nuclear Option To Overtake Delegate Lead

Hillary Clinton's campaign has a secret weapon to build its delegate count, but her top strategists say privately that any attempt to deploy it would require a sharp (and by no means inevitable) shift in the political climate within Democratic circles by the end of this month.

With at least 50 percent of the Democratic Party's 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee committed to Clinton, her backers could -- when the committee meets at the end of this month -- try to ram through a decision to seat the disputed 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations. Such a decision would give Clinton an estimated 55 or more delegates than Obama, according to Clinton campaign operatives. The Obama campaign has declined to give an estimate.

Using the Rules and Bylaws Committee to force the seating of two pro-Hillary delegations would provoke a massive outcry from Obama forces. Such a strategy would, additionally, face at least two other major hurdles, and could only be attempted, according to sources in the Clinton camp, under specific circumstances:

First, this coming Tuesday, Clinton would have to win Indiana and lose North Carolina by a very small margin - or better yet, win the Tar Heel state. She would also have to demonstrate continued strength in the contests before May 31.

Second, and equally important, her argument that she is a better general election candidate than Obama -- that he has major weaknesses which have only been recently revealed -- would have to rapidly gain traction, not only within the media, where she has experienced some success, but within the broad activist ranks of the Democratic Party.

Under that optimistic scenario, some Clinton operatives believe she could overcome several massive stumbling blocks:

-- Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee would have to be persuaded to put their political futures on the line by defying major party constituencies, especially black leaders backing Barack Obama. Committee members are unlikely to take such a step unless they are convinced that Clinton has a strong chance of winning the nomination.

Former DNC and South Carolina Democratic Party chair Donald Fowler -- a Hillary loyalist -- would, for example, face an outpouring of anger from South Carolina Democrats if he were to go along with such a strategy.

-- A controversial decision to seat the two delegations, as currently constituted, would be appealed by the Obama campaign to the Democratic National Convention's Credentials Committee.

The full make-up of the Credentials Committee will not be determined until all the primaries are completed, but the pattern of Clinton and Obama victories so far clearly suggests that Obama delegates on that committee will outnumber Clinton delegates. Obama will not, however, have a majority, according to most estimates, and the balance of power will be held by delegates appointed by DNC chair Howard Dean.

For the scenario to work, then, Dean would have to be convinced of Clinton's superior viability in the general election, and that she has a strong chance of defeating McCain next November.

One of the arguments the Clinton campaign is privately making to autonomous "super" or "automatic" delegates, as well as to delegates technically "pledged" to Obama as a result of primary and caucus results, is that the campaign shifted dramatically in roughly mid-February. At that point, Clinton supporters contend, the economy replaced Iraq as the dominant issue among primary voters, and that transition led to Clinton's successes in Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

Clinton people also make the case that the past six weeks have seen examples of Obama's political vulnerabilities: his wife's "proud to be an American" remarks, the emergence of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy, wider coverage of Obama's ties to 1960s radicals Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, "bittergate," the flag pin imbroglio, and "hand on the heart" accusations -- all impugning Obama's patriotism.

* * *

The controversy over Michigan and Florida grows out of the decision of both states to flout national party rules prohibiting all but a few states -- Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina -- from holding primaries or caucuses before February 5, 2008. Michigan held its primary on January 15 and Florida on January 29.

On December 1, 2007, well before the contests were held, the Rules and Bylaws Committee voted to refuse to seat either state's delegation at the August 2008 convention in Denver.

When the contests were actually held, none of the candidates actively campaigned in either state. In Michigan, Obama had his name taken off the ballot. Clinton "won" both contests.

The Obama campaign contends that the primaries in the two states were not legitimate, especially in Michigan where voters could not cast a ballot for Obama. Clinton "won" the Michigan contest with 55 percent, while 40 percent voted "uncommitted" and the remainder went to minor candidates.

Obama manager David Plouffe has argued that the only way to seat the Michigan delegation would be to divide the delegates evenly between Clinton and Obama: "A 50-50 split would be fair."

Many Democrats, including DNC chair Howard Dean, believe it is critically important to reach some kind of compromise to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations in order not to alienate voters in the two battleground states, each of which could be pivotal in the November general election.

In the case of Florida, there are a number of proposals under consideration. One would be to seat the delegation as is, but give each delegate only one half a vote. Another would be to cut the number of Florida delegates in half.

Spokesmen for the Obama campaign declined to discuss their strategies for dealing with the May 31 Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting, or to speculate on what they think the Clinton forces with try to do.
Is anyone else fed up with her? The way she keeps going, she seems like she won't stop until she's torn the Democratic Party apart during this primary. :roll:

And just for fun, here's a cartoon.
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Post by Aaron »

What a c**t, she can't win without backroom BS and she knows it. Fuck her and the horse she rode in on.
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Post by Teaos »

They have been talking about this for ages.

Florida was pretty stupid to even try.

If she manages to pull this off she just handed McCain the White house.
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Post by Aaron »

Someone needs to sit down with Hillary and explain that she can't win and if she gets it through backroom dealings she will hand the Republicans another eight years. They want her to get the nomination because every GOP supporter will turn out in droves to vote against her, she's a Clinton, a female and a liberal (well an American version). Everything they hate.
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Post by Teaos »

Fact is she may just have a better chance against McCain than Obama. She is winning the really important states and is liked more by the swing voters. Obama is just a machine in getting new voters in and involved but that only does so much.

The Democrates are now screwed.

Rewind 3 months wither might have been able to do it. Together with one as VP they would have been unstoppable.
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Post by sunnyside »

Teaos wrote: Rewind 3 months wither might have been able to do it. Together with one as VP they would have been unstoppable.
Probably true. I have to think that both want power and prestige more than anything (at least one gets that impression with Hillary, Obama probably too but he's new enough it's hard to say).

That move might not help her though. Even if he did pull that off this election is still going to be diceded by the superdelegates. If she ticks them off with a move like that she's going to lose.

Her best bet right now is to convince the super delegates that with her wins in battleground states she's the one with the best chance to take McCain.
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Post by Monroe »

To quote Andrew Jackson, "Corrupt Bargin!"
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Post by Teaos »

Even if he did pull that off this election is still going to be diceded by the superdelegates. If she ticks them off with a move like that she's going to lose.
What sucks for the party is that if the supers go against the person who is winning to start with the public will rebel.
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Post by sunnyside »

Teaos wrote: What sucks for the party is that if the supers go against the person who is winning to start with the public will rebel.
Well the supers don't hold a majority. Meaning it isn't like they can overturn the public.

Right now people talk about how the people have spoken for Obama. But the guy only has a 4% lead. That's not exactly a mandate.
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Post by Teaos »

It's enough to piss people off if the supers go a different way.
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Post by Tsukiyumi »

Teaos wrote:It's enough to **** people off if the supers go a different way.
Unfortunately, that won't change the outcome favorably. Bush won in 2000 using electoral votes; the popular vote went to Al Gore.
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Post by sunnyside »

Tsukiyumi wrote: Unfortunately, that won't change the outcome favorably. Bush won in 2000 using electoral votes; the popular vote went to Al Gore.
To elaborate on that for people who might not know. In the general election each state gives out it's votes in a winner takes all format.

Obama tends to take states that are always blue and making them go, uh, violet. This doesn't help him win at all though.

But he does worse in the states where the vote is close. If he loses those states in the general election he could lose the whole thing.
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Post by Teaos »

I like most none americans used to think the system they use is stupid.

"How can someone get more votes and not win?"

But now I have been reserching it during the last year it makes a lot of sense.
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Post by Tsukiyumi »

Teaos wrote:I like most none americans used to think the system they use is stupid.

"How can someone get more votes and not win?"

But now I have been reserching it during the last year it makes a lot of sense.
If it were all up to popular vote, TV would decide who becomes president.

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