Principle harrases homosexual students

[Duskofdead]

I think holding ANY strong opinion is a choice. To imply anything otherwise is to say people can't change their minds, or can't learn.

So then YOU are saying that a gay guy can either wake up one day and say, "Hey, I'm straight now" ot he can learn to like women and not like men... that is what YOUR statement is saying...

However, this would open up where the line is drawn between an indiviudual's brain's biological working being fact and opinion (internally to that person).

I am NOT saying that same-sex is a "choice", quite the opposite.

Are you not following me? I am saying sexuality is NOT a choice, bigotry IS. People are taught by their parents and/or community or culture to dislike, or think less, of certain groups. Equating that with a biological trait or inborn nature is flawed.

[Jim]

I think holding ANY strong opinion is a choice. To imply anything otherwise is to say people can't change their minds, or can't learn.

So then YOU are saying that a gay guy can either wake up one day and say, "Hey, I'm straight now" ot he can learn to like women and not like men... that is what YOUR statement is saying...

However, this would open up where the line is drawn between an indiviudual's brain's biological working being fact and opinion (internally to that person).

I am NOT saying that same-sex is a "choice", quite the opposite.

Are you not following me? I am saying sexuality is NOT a choice, bigotry IS. People are taught by their parents and/or community or culture to dislike, or think less, of certain groups. Equating that with a biological trait or inborn nature is flawed.

I am following you and I am saying that they both are the same. Sexuality is not a choice and neither is disliking something. I am saying that no liking something (and therefore falling int the bigot/racist/sexist/etc label) is in many cases a biological trait or inborn nature (you are saying that it isn't). As I am saying they are the same I am making the comparison that if you feel one is changable, then by your logic both should be.

[Duskofdead]

So then YOU are saying that a gay guy can either wake up one day and say, "Hey, I'm straight now" ot he can learn to like women and not like men... that is what YOUR statement is saying...

However, this would open up where the line is drawn between an indiviudual's brain's biological working being fact and opinion (internally to that person).

I am NOT saying that same-sex is a "choice", quite the opposite.

Are you not following me? I am saying sexuality is NOT a choice, bigotry IS. People are taught by their parents and/or community or culture to dislike, or think less, of certain groups. Equating that with a biological trait or inborn nature is flawed.

I am following you and I am saying that they both are the same. Sexuality is not a choice and neither is disliking something. I am saying that no liking something (and therefore falling int the bigot/racist/sexist/etc label) is in many cases a biological trait or inborn nature (you are saying that it isn't). As I am saying they are the same I am making the comparison that if you feel one is changable, then by your logic both should be.

Your basis for saying they are the same was saying you just don't like onions. Onions on your tongue is a chemical reaction. Being prejudiced isn't, it's a social construct.

[Mikey]

I didn't believe Noam Chomsky back then, I don't believe in the same type of mechanism now - but I understand your point, Jim. The difference that I see is that IF there was some sort of biological a/o Jungian principle at work regarding bigotry, a true evolved human should be able and willing to consciously overcome it.

[sunnyside]

I didn't believe Noam Chomsky back then, I don't believe in the same type of mechanism now - but I understand your point, Jim. The difference that I see is that IF there was some sort of biological a/o Jungian principle at work regarding bigotry, a true evolved human should be able and willing to consciously overcome it.

Well in the sense of the Bene Gesserit sure.

I'll accept that Jim might not be able to like onion.
And maybe I can accept that some people couldn't watch some guy sucking cock without wincing.

However that's just a gut reaction. I don't think Jim has a problem with say, onion farmers, and I doubt he has a bad reaction if he knows someone else has onion in their hamburger.

I think that's the difference.

[Reliant121]

And maybe I can accept that some people couldn't watch some guy sucking cock without wincing.

Wince? No....i dont think so....i think drooling is more appropriate in some cases

[Duskofdead]

I didn't believe Noam Chomsky back then, I don't believe in the same type of mechanism now - but I understand your point, Jim. The difference that I see is that IF there was some sort of biological a/o Jungian principle at work regarding bigotry, a true evolved human should be able and willing to consciously overcome it.

Well in the sense of the Bene Gesserit sure.

I'll accept that Jim might not be able to like onion.
And maybe I can accept that some people couldn't watch some guy sucking cock without wincing.

However that's just a gut reaction. I don't think Jim has a problem with say, onion farmers, and I doubt he has a bad reaction if he knows someone else has onion in their hamburger.

I think that's the difference.

I think you stated it very well. I think that if someone can't meet an onion farmer, though, without harassing them becuase they hate onions, then person #1 has some sort of psychological or social problem. It's not the onion farmer's fault nor is person #1 valid for chewing out the onion farmer because "he can't help not liking onions."

[Mikey]

I didn't believe Noam Chomsky back then, I don't believe in the same type of mechanism now - but I understand your point, Jim. The difference that I see is that IF there was some sort of biological a/o Jungian principle at work regarding bigotry, a true evolved human should be able and willing to consciously overcome it.

Well in the sense of the Bene Gesserit sure.

That's exactly what I meant, "young human."

I'll accept that Jim might not be able to like onion.
And maybe I can accept that some people couldn't watch some guy sucking cock without wincing.

However that's just a gut reaction. I don't think Jim has a problem with say, onion farmers, and I doubt he has a bad reaction if he knows someone else has onion in their hamburger.

I think that's the difference.

That's the other part of acting like a human being. I have no interest in being sexually involved with another man; but I can leave it at that, and feel no need to hate homosexuals.

As the great Lewis Black said, when discussing what Republicans thought of the large problems facing our nation:
"Gay marriage? After 9/11, that's what you're worried about? On the list of national problems, gay marriage is on page 6, right after 'Do we eat too much garlic as a people?'"

[sunnyside]

But a key thing to remember is that there are a large number of people who have a serious issue with gay marriage.

Some maybe do just have some weird aversion of it that they don't want to let go of.

Many have religious reasons.

Some apperantly hate some of their own feelings on the issue and so lash out.

Some feel that it will result in a degredation of regular marriage, grandkids and/or other traditional stuff they hold dear.

Some fear it'll lead to a general increase in promiscuity in the culture at larger (personally I think that ship sailed in the 60's and has just kept going)

And others fear reverse discrimination and being looked down upon in a "metro" culture. (I've felt a bit of the sting of this in Philly, I can see where the temptation is.)

And some maybe just because it was how they were brought up, including all the gay jokes they hear in the gaming culture.

Anyway what I'm saying is that despite the tolerance generally shown out here in the intertubes, back in the real world people who dislike homosexuals/homosexuality to varying degrees make up the majority.

[Tsukiyumi]

...Some feel that it will result in a degredation of regular marriage, grandkids and/or other traditional stuff they hold dear...

Things change, or they die. Evolution at it's most basic.

...Some fear it'll lead to a general increase in promiscuity in the culture at larger (personally I think that ship sailed in the 60's and has just kept going)...

I know from experience with other people - that ship already sailed off the edge of the map. People just can't commit to sh*t anymore, and it's goddamn disgusting. Everyone is free to make their own choices; my choice is to steer clear of scumbags and otherwise uncouth people.

...And others fear reverse discrimination and being looked down upon in a "metro" culture. (I've felt a bit of the sting of this in Philly, I can see where the temptation is.)...

I ain't waxing my chest anytime soon. Men are supposed to be hairy (within reason, anyways), and any chick who doesn't want that can go find herself a guy to go get a mani-pedi with. In fact, the more mainstream it gets, the less likely I'll be to do it, like with piercings and tattoos.

...And some maybe just because it was how they were brought up, including all the gay jokes they hear in the gaming culture...

Personally, I always give an earful to anyone who makes discriminatory comments. Maybe that's just me.

...Anyway what I'm saying is that despite the tolerance generally shown out here in the intertubes, back in the real world people who dislike homosexuals/homosexuality to varying degrees make up the majority.

Which makes it another situation of the majority being uneducated, or downright wrong. If the majority of people wanted to erect a monument to Hitler, rest assured I'd be there with demo charges to bring it down the next day.

[Mikey]

Hey, I got a manicure once.

[Tsukiyumi]

Hey, I got a manicure once.

As long as you don't have a regular that you go see every weekend, I'd say you're Metro-free.

[Teaos]

children do not have a "sexuality"

I'd have to disagree with that.

Hey, I got a manicure once.

*points*

[Tsukiyumi]

children do not have a "sexuality"

I'd have to disagree with that.

I also disagree. I was about five or six when I realized I liked girls, and started going through puberty at eight or nine. I guess it depends on your definition of "child".

[Teaos]

I was thinking about the fact sexuality is genetics and since your genes dont change children have the same sexuality as adults its just not as developed.