TAS gets a makeover

Blackstar the Chakat · Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:12 pm

Absolutly no Western animation. That barely qualifies as animation and is never taken seriously in any mannor. CGI would probably have the best chance of success, but it's more expensive then more conventional styles so it's riskier.

But if the writing isn't as bad as it was during the first two seasons of Enterprise or most of the TNG series it might have a shot.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:16 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:Absolutly no Western animation. That barely qualifies as animation and is never taken seriously in any mannor. CGI would probably have the best chance of success, but it's more expensive then more conventional styles so it's riskier.

You have never seen Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Justice League, Gargoyles, Justice League Unilimited, X-Men Evolution, or Spectacular Spider-Man have you? All are WESTERN ANIMATION.

Blackstar the Chakat · Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:24 pm

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:Absolutly no Western animation. That barely qualifies as animation and is never taken seriously in any mannor. CGI would probably have the best chance of success, but it's more expensive then more conventional styles so it's riskier.
You have never seen Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Justice League, Gargoyles, Justice League Unilimited, X-Men Evolution, or Spectacular Spider-Man have you? All are WESTERN ANIMATION.

I've seen Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone wars, and Gargoyles. And all three sucked. I think the only western style series I've liked was Road Rovers, which they cancelled after one season. That and Swat Kats....watching stuff like that as a kid no wonder I became a furry.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:25 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:Absolutly no Western animation. That barely qualifies as animation and is never taken seriously in any mannor. CGI would probably have the best chance of success, but it's more expensive then more conventional styles so it's riskier.
You have never seen Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Justice League, Gargoyles, Justice League Unilimited, X-Men Evolution, or Spectacular Spider-Man have you? All are WESTERN ANIMATION.
I've seen Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone wars, and Gargoyles. And all three sucked. I think the only western style series I've liked was Road Rovers, which they cancelled after one season. That and Swat Kats....watching stuff like that as a kid no wonder I became a furry.

You have seriously wierd tastes if you thought those three well written and animated series sucked. REALLY wierd tastes.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:37 pm

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:Absolutly no Western animation. That barely qualifies as animation and is never taken seriously in any mannor. CGI would probably have the best chance of success, but it's more expensive then more conventional styles so it's riskier.
You have never seen Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Justice League, Gargoyles, Justice League Unilimited, X-Men Evolution, or Spectacular Spider-Man have you? All are WESTERN ANIMATION.

Batman TAS is one of the best animation series I've seen. I still think Mask of the Phantasm is superior to all the films, Batman Begins included.

And I need to watch Clone Wars again, those Elite Stormtroopers kicked ass.

Blackstar the Chakat · Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:55 pm

SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:
SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote: You have never seen Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Justice League, Gargoyles, Justice League Unilimited, X-Men Evolution, or Spectacular Spider-Man have you? All are WESTERN ANIMATION.
I've seen Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone wars, and Gargoyles. And all three sucked. I think the only western style series I've liked was Road Rovers, which they cancelled after one season. That and Swat Kats....watching stuff like that as a kid no wonder I became a furry.
You have seriously wierd tastes if you thought those three well written and animated series sucked. REALLY wierd tastes.

No I just prefer anime over little kids stuff. Also if you think the writing in those series was good, I feel sorry for you for not being exposed to more culture.

SuperSaiyaMan12 · Post by **SuperSaiyaMan12** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:09 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote: I've seen Samurai Jack, Star Wars Clone wars, and Gargoyles. And all three sucked. I think the only western style series I've liked was Road Rovers, which they cancelled after one season. That and Swat Kats....watching stuff like that as a kid no wonder I became a furry.
You have seriously wierd tastes if you thought those three well written and animated series sucked. REALLY wierd tastes.
No I just prefer anime over little kids stuff. Also if you think the writing in those series was good, I feel sorry for you for not being exposed to more culture.

I am an Anime Fan as well. But I do think that Gargoyles, Clone Wars, and Samurai Jack, as well as the other western series I gave you, have *excellent* writing that not only are on par with most Shonen Animes, but better. Give credence where credence is due.

How old are you? 15? 16?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:02 pm

Blackstar, the problems you're pointing out are with writing, not with animation style. Western style animation was made primarily for kids, and hence their scripts suffered. Take a look at kid-orientated anime and you'll see the same problems.

The fact is that anime is about as popular as sci-fi, which is to say that it's not that popular at all. Already a new Trek series would have to go through a lot of difficulty just to maintain the fanbase it already had, bringing in new fans would be even more difficult without alienating the older fans.
Making a new series as an anime would make it even less mainstream. As such, there'd be virtualy no new fans coming in, while a massive amount of the existing fanbase would be turned off from the get-go.
While I can't speak for how it's percieved in North America, in Europe anime is generaly relegated to the status of western animation. Ie, it's percieved to be just another style of kid's cartoon. Most people over here, upon hearing the word 'anime', will immediately think of things like Yu-gi-oh and PokÃ©mon. As such, they simply wouldn't take it seriously, and just consider it to be sci-fi for kids.

While you may be able to get some new fans due to anime fans watching it, you've just lost viewership in most of an entire continent, while also losing viewership among the older fans.
Basicaly, such a show would be the death of Trek.

Saiya: I think shi's 18.

Blackstar the Chakat · Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:29 am

19 years old.

Rochey's snip about anime

We've covered all this before. But there is a lot of adult oriented anime out there then child oriented stuff. I'm just saying it would have a better chance then Western style and less risky, financially, then CGI IMO. CGI would probably work best, but in the end having an animated Star Trek series is a bad idea in general.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:06 pm

Blackstar - it really seems like you're missing the point again. This isn't about defending anime or putting down any other style of animation - we're talking about WHAT WOULD WORK BEST FOR A STAR TREK FRANCHISE. The fact that "Blackstar likes anime and not other types of animation" may be true, but is hardly a compelling motivation in this arena. You've seen in th past that I am, while certainly no otaku, at least familiar with a good deal of anime, and favorably-minded toward some of it. However, I am interestingly enough able to do two important things:

#1 - appreciate anime WITHOUT having to dump on other animation styles to do so; and,

#2 - objectively and critically think about what would work best for the franchise from both an artisitic and marketability standpoint, without what I personally like interfering with that analysis.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:43 pm

We've covered all this before.

Yes, we have. We've pointed out these exact same problems to you before.

But there is a lot of adult oriented anime out there then child oriented stuff.

So? There's a lot of adult-orientated western style animation as well. That won't shake Average Joe's preconception that anime=PokÃ©mon and western=Bugs Bunny.
No one's arguing that there's adult styled anime out there. The fact remains, however, that most people either don't know or care about that fact.

I'm just saying it would have a better chance then Western style

I doubt it. Anime is, and for the forseeable future will be, relegated to the status of a niche market. While a western style show may not do much better than it, it'd be a lot less risky due to the target audience already being familiar with such a style.

and less risky, financially, then CGI IMO.

Financialy? Yeah, definitely. In terms of ratings? No, almost certainly not. CGI doesn't have the same 'geek' stereotype that anime is often asociated with, however unfairly.

CGI would probably work best, but in the end having an animated Star Trek series is a bad idea in general.

Agreed.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:40 pm

I think that's one point that we have a consensus on.

RK_Striker_JK_5 · Post by **RK_Striker_JK_5** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:38 am

Do it a'la the DCAU and it'll be gangbusters. Blackstar? You're wrong. Deeply wrong. The DCAU was/is better than a lot of anime I've seen.

mwhittington · Post by **mwhittington** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:16 am

I like anime, too, in fact, Akira was one of the best movies I've seen in a long time, and I really like Cowboy Bebop and Avatar: The Last Airbender. I think that anime might work, but it is a big risk to take for the franchise. CGI would be better and less of a risk, if more expensive.

Blackstar the Chakat · Thu May 01, 2008 2:37 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Do it a'la the DCAU and it'll be gangbusters. Blackstar? You're wrong. Deeply wrong. The DCAU was/is better than a lot of anime I've seen.

Well, if you watch 3 series, and two of them are crap then your image of it can be scewed quite a bit. You've probably, or at least hopefully watched more then that, but just because you've had some bad luck with anime doesn't mean the majority is bad. And just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are bad. There are plenty of anime series I don't like, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

Oh, and IMHO DCAU didn't even have any of the cool heros. And isn't it dying off now?

I like anime, too, in fact, Akira was one of the best movies I've seen in a long time, and I really like Cowboy Bebop and Avatar: The Last Airbender. I think that anime might work, but it is a big risk to take for the franchise. CGI would be better and less of a risk, if more expensive.

That's exactly what I've been trying to get across.