What's with the US' school shooting problem?

Post by **Mikey** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:04 am

Where I am, Stitch, they get all that and more - except maybe #4, but that's missing in spite of the teachers rather than because of them.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:39 am

Oh wow... I didn't think any US school district would do 1. Of course, my school district has less money than some of the old people who want to keep their money and vote no to any budget proposal that may increase taxes. That is one thing that really annoys me.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:32 am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
1. Dental exams and treatment for low income families (that's paid for by the Province and done by Health Unit RNs for the schools anyways)

2. Milk available and healthy snacks in vending machines (I don't give my kids money for that but others do)

3. An impartial look at sex and body issues (we do it on our own but not to many others do)

4. An effective discipline system without corporal punishment

5. Honest grading

6. A safe enviroment

Naturally I live in a more socialist country than you do but I don't think any of that is a stretch.

For the record I grew up in rural Iowa so.

#1. Not done, but at least in Iowa the situation works fairly well for kids getting dental care. Also fairly solid no wait emergency care of all types. (I've only had one exceperience with the British system and it did not go well at all).

#2 The milk is free

#3 Have that

#4 Have that. And when the situation calls for it the teachers aren't afraid to break up a fight by getting a little physical themselves.

#5 Yup.

#6 All sorts of that.

I think I ask a little bit more though. I'd like

7. Some kind of talented and gifted program

8. Access to college courses.

Which we have.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:34 am

Whoops, that list of mine is for elementry school.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:47 am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Mikey wrote:
As I'm writing this, I think perhaps you misinterpret me. When I wrote "welfare culture," I wasn't referring specifically to people who receive welfare - I have no problem with that. What I referred to was the mindset that "somebody else" should take care of everything.
There are certain things I as a parent expect from the school system:

1. Dental exams and treatment for low income families (that's paid for by the Province and done by Health Unit RNs for the schools anyways)

2. Milk available and healthy snacks in vending machines (I don't give my kids money for that but others do)

3. An impartial look at sex and body issues (we do it on our own but not to many others do)

4. An effective discipline system without corporal punishment

5. Honest grading

6. A safe enviroment

Naturally I live in a more socialist country than you do but I don't think any of that is a stretch.

I don't think it's ridiculous or a stretch at all. But you'd be amazed at the greedy rich neaderthal mentalities you have to browbeat against in the U.S. when it comes to any change like the ones we'd need to meet this sort of list. Everyone wants the best for their kids but those most fit to help support such a system somehow feel most entitled to not have to support it an inch further than what would cover their own kids and the rest be damned. That is why the private school system is so huge, and why affluent areas in the U.S. break off and become their own cities or counties. So that the local property taxes which go to help schools stays in their area only, and not to any of the schools or the pots for the schools in the greater surrounding community. This of course both perpetuates and exacerbates the landslide deterioration of overall school quality as some schools have heated pools while others are falling apart.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:03 am

Actually what Duskofdead is talking about is probalby a big part of why rural Iowa public schools are so good. You've got a mix of everybody. The richest guy and the poorest both send their kids to the same place, because there isn't another place to send them.

So you get a nice degree of diversity and solid funding.

Here in Philly the problem exacerbates itself. You either pay to send your kid to private school or they're doing to know somebody who got killed. That actually helps a lot with the discapline too I imagine. A private school can simply not accept your child and any point in time at which point they'd have to go to the *gasp* public school.

Of course some areas are worse than others.

Personally schools are one of the areas I'd like to see some more equality. The kids haven't even had a chance yet. Give them one. It'd be better for the country.

Actually I think we should start funding boarding school to get kids in the inner cities the heck out of there.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:06 am

sunnyside wrote:Actually I think we should start funding boarding school to get kids in the inner cities the heck out of there.

That would be properly termed as a "bug-out"...

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:09 am

Of course, with No Child Left Behind (aka No Child's Behind Left due to over testing) getting funding for any public schools is very difficult.

Lake of federal funds, and old people who do not want to pay more school tax are two of the reasons that I get paid only 55/day, when most districts pay ~100/day.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:10 am

sunnyside wrote:
Here in Philly the problem exacerbates itself. You either pay to send your kid to private school or they're doing to know somebody who got killed. That actually helps a lot with the discapline too I imagine. A private school can simply not accept your child and any point in time at which point they'd have to go to the *gasp* public school.

I can imagine how that turns out, the poor kids (ie:blacks) get to wallow in crap and the rich folk (whites) get their paradise with the added bonus that the scum aren't there.

That's a big reason why there are few private schools in Canada, your supposed to mix with the rest of society.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:11 am

stitch626 wrote:Of course, with No Child Left Behind (aka No Child's Behind Left due to over testing) getting funding for any public schools is very difficult.
Lake of federal funds, and old people who do not want to pay more school tax are two of the reasons that I get paid only 55/day, when most districts pay ~100/day.

Where do you live? I live in hillbilly/elderly hillbilly land and it pretty much meets what you describe.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:13 am

I live about an hour north of NYC (not giving actual location because we never know who the guests are, and I'm a bit paranoid).

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:14 am

stitch626 wrote:I live about an hour north of NYC (not giving actual location because we never know who the guests are, and I'm a bit paranoid).

Ahh, I hear the only actual good part of NYS is NYC. The rest isn't much better than the flyover states.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:22 am

It's not that bad. Little pollution (if you exclude the Hudson), ok traffic, some nice people. Nice scenery... in my opinion of course.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:15 am

I'm not sure what teacher salaries are like in Iowa. But the cost of living is very low. You can rent a house with spacious yard for $400 (250 euros) a month.

Anyway on the subject of the school shootings. The spree type shooting I think also have a massive factor of wanting attention, wanting fame. Something that links all of them is bunches of letters and other things. Videos, pictures, I think the virgina tech guy actually mailed little press releases to the media.

Of course I don't know how much that is a bonus vs motive, but I think it might be significant.

Otherwise I think Americans at least are generally just less willing to commit suicide in peace, sorrow turning into anger. It isn't just schools. You've got the postmen. A while back here in Philly we had somebody who lost his money daytrading mowing down people where he worked. Or sometimes they just go to the nearest place where guns aren't allowed and lay into the crowd.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:15 am

Teachers here get paid ok. 55k a year plus all that sweet holiday time.

They are trying to introduce bulk funding though to even it out.