What's with the US' school shooting problem?

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:56 am

I'm studying to become a teacher. Math or physics. I'm currently subbing (when available). I have zero (ok maybe a very minute amount) classroom management problems. This is because I am respectful... and a whole lot of other stuff (I don't really know why, but I never really have a problem).
Guess I'm just too cool for them. 8)

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:51 am

I'm glad to hear that, Stitch, but my point isn't that kids SHOULD always be disciplined - it's that when it is necessary to discipline a behavior problem, so as to keep a conducive environment for the rest of the class, a teacher's hands are tied as Teaos mentioned.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:57 am

Mikey wrote:I'm glad to hear that, Stitch, but my point isn't that kids SHOULD always be disciplined - it's that when it is necessary to discipline a behavior problem, so as to keep a conducive environment for the rest of the class, a teacher's hands are tied as Teaos mentioned.

Unfortunately it's a society wide problem I think. It has a lot to do with our selfish mindset and individualism kind of "gone bad." If you just listen to a couple of parents with school-age kids talk, it can get pretty nauseating. They're all so quick to denounce the competency of a given teacher and think they know what's best in every situation. I can see teachers getting little if any support from the parents-- HOWEVER the teacher handles a situation or conflict or problem child, 2/3rds of the parents disagree or could have done better.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:04 am

Amen, brother Dusk. The way I sum it up is this: when I was in grade school, and I came home with an indication of "trouble," my parents asked, "What did you do?" Now, the parents ask, "What did that teacher do?"

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:42 am

stitch626 wrote:I'm studying to become a teacher. Math or physics. I'm currently subbing (when available). I have zero (ok maybe a very minute amount) classroom management problems. This is because I am respectful... and a whole lot of other stuff (I don't really know why, but I never really have a problem).
Guess I'm just too cool for them. 8)

Hey if you want we've got plenty of openings here in Philly. I'm given to understand that you don't even need a teachers certificate for many of them.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:59 am

Mikey wrote:Amen, brother Dusk. The way I sum it up is this: when I was in grade school, and I came home with an indication of "trouble," my parents asked, "What did you do?" Now, the parents ask, "What did that teacher do?"

"Don't YOU talk to MY kid that way. Pfft, teachers, they weren't smart enough to DO anything else and they think they have the right to say that to my kid.."

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:52 am

Perants just dont want to believe there child is a little B*stard.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:03 am

Monkey see, monkey do. Kids mimic parents' behaviors, so when the parents are disrespectful f*ckheads, guess what the kids become...

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:37 pm

I hate to sound like a *gasp* Republican, beacuse I don't mind helping those who truly need it (and aren't wasteful of it,) but part of the problem in the urban areas in my neck of the woods is the "welfare culture." People have come to expect the school systems to feed their children; provide medical support for their children; subsidize clothing when uniforms are required; watch their children before and after school - sometimes kids are in school care from 7:30 am until 6 or 7 at night! - and basically raise their children.

AFAIC, the school's only responsibility should be to edumucate the little jerks, and POSSIBLY to provide advice and help in parenting.

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:40 pm

Thats stating to become a problem here to although not quite to the same extent.

People are demanding 30 hours child care free a week from the government for children under 5.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:14 pm

Mikey wrote:I hate to sound like a *gasp* Republican, beacuse I don't mind helping those who truly need it (and aren't wasteful of it,) but part of the problem in the urban areas in my neck of the woods is the "welfare culture." People have come to expect the school systems to feed their children; provide medical support for their children; subsidize clothing when uniforms are required; watch their children before and after school - sometimes kids are in school care from 7:30 am until 6 or 7 at night! - and basically raise their children.

AFAIC, the school's only responsibility should be to edumucate the little jerks, and POSSIBLY to provide advice and help in parenting.

Well this is hardly a welfare culture issue. This is also a single parent issue, and parents having to work late hours/more than one job just to cover the bills issue. It's very handy (and Republicans, like you mentioned, use this line of reasoning) to merely wrap up all parents unable to be very involved in their kids' lives as apathetic welfare parents but it's a bit more complicated than that. The truth is we have an economy which doesn't pay a living wage to an awful lot of people, depending on where they live or if they have a kid. I'm all for make the parents responsible but honestly this is a problem that goes deeper than one or two issues. Part of the problem is that times have changed relatively fast and we are still "Judging" the concept of a supportive/responsible family as the 1950's picture with dad going to work and mom staying home and baking cookies and available to help out with school and what not. Even with parents who mean well, that's not a reality anymore unless you're well off.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Dusk, you don't have to tell me about the way of the working parent. Both I and my wife work - my wife is a teacher, so most of the stuff I'm writing here comes from the horse's mouth, as it were - and we struggle. There are plenty of times when I have to say goodnight to my daughter on the phone, and it kills me. But I and my wife pay for her medical bills, her food, her day care, her clothes, her dance class, her swimming lessons, etc., etc. - I and my wife, and NOBODY ELSE. I am not knocking anyone for requiring some help, even though I don't get and never will get that same help.

What I am knocking is the EXPECTATION that it is everyone's responsibility to raise a child except for the child's parent or parents. There are situations in which my wife had to say at work late - and be late picking up our own daughter - because a parent who was NOT AT WORK simply forgot what time to pick up their child. There are instances in which parents refused to pay to subsidized, reduced rate for school lunch because, in their opinion, the school should just "do it." This is just another facet of the "not my fault, I won't take on accountability" syndrome which has becaome endemic to our country.

As I'm writing this, I think perhaps you misinterpret me. When I wrote "welfare culture," I wasn't referring specifically to people who receive welfare - I have no problem with that. What I referred to was the mindset that "somebody else" should take care of everything.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:19 pm

Mikey wrote:
As I'm writing this, I think perhaps you misinterpret me. When I wrote "welfare culture," I wasn't referring specifically to people who receive welfare - I have no problem with that. What I referred to was the mindset that "somebody else" should take care of everything.

There are certain things I as a parent expect from the school system:

1. Dental exams and treatment for low income families (that's paid for by the Province and done by Health Unit RNs for the schools anyways)

2. Milk available and healthy snacks in vending machines (I don't give my kids money for that but others do)

3. An impartial look at sex and body issues (we do it on our own but not to many others do)

4. An effective discipline system without corporal punishment

5. Honest grading

6. A safe enviroment

Naturally I live in a more socialist country than you do but I don't think any of that is a stretch.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:56 pm

It's not a stretch - many of our school systems - here in our "non-socialist" nation - provide all of that, and more IN SPADES. The problem which I speak of occurs when parents expect all of that, and more, and further shoulder little to none of their own parenting responsibility.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 pm

1. Dental exams and treatment for low income families (that's paid for by the Province and done by Health Unit RNs for the schools anyways)

2. Milk available and healthy snacks in vending machines (I don't give my kids money for that but others do)

3. An impartial look at sex and body issues (we do it on our own but not to many others do)

4. An effective discipline system without corporal punishment

5. Honest grading

6. A safe enviroment

1-not gonna happen in the US, though it would be wonderful

2-sometime is the case

3-maybe by the teachers, rarely by the students

4-don't think its possible when parents get involved (the "my son could never have done that..." involved)

5-I will try my best

6-this can be difficult (especially if the local police don't give a... well i don't curse, but you get the idea)