Machine gun and Torch in one handy package.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:45 pm

Yeah, the whole North/South Korea thing is one of the more serious reprecusions of that event.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm

Well with the North Koreans we could always just stop shipping them food and let them die off. That would solve that problem in about a year.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:22 pm

Uh....it would also kill a few million innocent civilians. I think we called Stalin evil for doing something similar.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:24 pm

It would also have little effect on the political situation - NK may not be able to feed its own people, but it does have enough to feed its elite and the army.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:35 pm

Uh....it would also kill a few million innocent civilians. I think we called Stalin evil for doing something similar.

Well then they'll have the choice to start back a the peace talks again or die. Leave it up to them.

It would also have little effect on the political situation - NK may not be able to feed its own people, but it does have enough to feed its elite and the army.

But an army can't stand by its self. It needs a nation to support it. If the nation dies, the army will follow. Without food and oil the country will start to weaken. Its army over the years will start to fall apart form hunger and budget problems. Withdraw human aid groups, hospitals and funding from the programs over there. NK is alive only because we support it.

In one year, the population will begin to die. If anything like the 90's it will be about 3 million a year.

In five years their armed forces will break down from lack of replacements. Desease and hunger will infest everything and everyone in the country.

In ten years the country will be little more then a husk and couldn't attack an ant hill let alone another country.

Its simple enough.[/quote]

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:47 pm

Well then they'll have the choice to start back a the peace talks again or die. Leave it up to them.

You're assuming that the NK leadership actualy gives a damn about the people. It doesn't. Millions of innocent people would die before they even started to worry.

RK_Striker_JK_5 · Post by **RK_Striker_JK_5** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:37 pm

Rochey wrote:
Actually, I haven't and am fascinated by this.
The USSR launched an invasion of Manchuko, which was a puppet government of Japan, shortly after the dropping of the first atom bomb. Had the war continued, they had plans for an invasion of Hokaido, the northernmost island of Japan. IIRC, the Soviets deployed close to 2 million troops in the attack.

Ah! I know of that, but didn't know the name. Thanks, Rochey.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:57 pm

Indeed, there's quite a substantial school of thought that holds that it was the Soviet offensive, more so than the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that persuaded the Japanese to surrender.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:28 pm

You're assuming that the NK leadership actualy gives a damn about the people. It doesn't. Millions of innocent people would die before they even started to worry.

I know they don't care about their people. Who does? But, in the end you need people if you want to keep up and army. No people, no army. Its how it goes.

Indeed, there's quite a substantial school of thought that holds that it was the Soviet offensive, more so than the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that persuaded the Japanese to surrender.

That and maybe the daily bombing runs by the US. The embargo around japan cutting off war supplies. The burning of farm land and razing of cities. The over one million american troops gathering for an invasion. Lets face it, one american or brit was worth 5 russians on a bad day. The buildup of half a dozen US fleets off the coast. Maybe the fact that by this time 8 million japanese had died. The IJN was mostly sunk or crippled. Their airforce was less then a thousand planes.

Just to get started.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:35 pm

Deepcrush wrote:
You're assuming that the NK leadership actualy gives a damn about the people. It doesn't. Millions of innocent people would die before they even started to worry.
That and maybe the daily bombing runs by the US. The embargo around japan cutting off war supplies. The burning of farm land and razing of cities. The over one million american troops gathering for an invasion. Lets face it, one american or brit was worth 5 russians on a bad day. The buildup of half a dozen US fleets off the coast. Maybe the fact that by this time 8 million japanese had died. The IJN was mostly sunk or crippled. Their airforce was less then a thousand planes.

I assume you intended to quote me rather than Rochey prior to this bit.

All that's true, but it had been true for some time. The Japanese weren't showing any signs of accepting allied terms.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:38 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:It would also have little effect on the political situation - NK may not be able to feed its own people, but it does have enough to feed its elite and the army.

Maybe so but they don't have the fuel do do anything. They've got enough to keep Big Kim in his limo but that's pushing it.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:00 pm

I assume you intended to quote me rather than Rochey prior to this bit.

Yeha, my bad. EDIT BUTTON!

All that's true, but it had been true for some time. The Japanese weren't showing any signs of accepting allied terms.

"The last straw that broke that camel's back."

It may have been part of what pushed them over the edge. That and englands redeployment with china's steady advance on the coast.

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:03 pm

Deep, are you kidding? You're actually advocating a reenactment of Stalin vs. Ukraine? Kim Jong Il is the problem, not an apolitical family of goatherds somewhere in the mountains.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:19 pm

If the US is to continue to supply food, water, oil and medical needs to a nation then that nation should be given limits in which to use said items. Funding a army to invade an allied nation of the US is not a reasonable limit. I advocate for the removal of said aids until NK agrees to the limits given. Should they not then both the people and the country will have to suffer for it. To fight cancer we must also kill off healthy tissue as well. Some would die from such action, this is sad but true. I see it as an acceptable loss. It would set a standard and show that the US would enforce international law by what ever means needed. Cutting off one country would show all around the world that the Law will be enforced regardless of who gets in the way.

Kim Jong uses his own people as a shield since he knows that most of the civil world doesn't want to hear about millions of deaths that it could prevent. You must remove the shield and force Kim Jong to accept that he only has power so long as we allow it. If it kills 3 million now, it could save 100 million in the future. Its a pity but they bring it on themselves so I'll have no hard feelings about it.

Deep, are you kidding? You're actually advocating a reenactment of Stalin vs. Ukraine? Kim Jong Il is the problem, not an apolitical family of goatherds somewhere in the mountains.

If they aren't willing to try an fix the problem then they are part of the problem. Such a sacrifice would be well worth the cost. Stalin killed for the sake of killing. Nothing more. I'm speaking of enforcing law. If NK will not follow the law then they will be killing themselves.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:33 pm

Deepcrush wrote:If the US is to continue to supply food, water, oil and medical needs to a nation then that nation should be given limits in which to use said items. Funding a army to invade an allied nation of the US is not a reasonable limit. I advocate for the removal of said aids until NK agrees to the limits given. Should they not then both the people and the country will have to suffer for it. To fight cancer we must also kill off healthy tissue as well. Some would die from such action, this is sad but true. I see it as an acceptable loss. It would set a standard and show that the US would enforce international law by what ever means needed. Cutting off one country would show all around the world that the Law will be enforced regardless of who gets in the way.

Kim Jong uses his own people as a shield since he knows that most of the civil world doesn't want to hear about millions of deaths that it could prevent. You must remove the shield and force Kim Jong to accept that he only has power so long as we allow it. If it kills 3 million now, it could save 100 million in the future. Its a pity but they bring it on themselves so I'll have no hard feelings about it.

DC, NK doesn't have the fuel to invade SK. At best they shoot their wad on a massive attack on the capital, trash it and then die horribly as their AFV's (which are all thirty year old designs) become pillboxes.

They get fuel aid but the vast majority has to go to keeping their people warm. Not even Kimmie wants to freeze out millions of people, that leads to revolution.