What's the latest in people's lives?

[Sionnach Glic]

True, from what I hear the US education system is sucktacular.

Though that's no excuse for not knowing about one of the most important events of the twentieth century.

[Deepcrush]

Ya, but the US public school system sucks in general, and been getting worse since the No Child Left Behind act. To sum it up: Let's make the students jump through hoops, and make the school pay for the hoops. And if too many kids fail, make the school pay even more.

Also if the child fails you just pass them anyways to make the school look good.

[Uzume]

Happy belated birthday, Reliant.
Did you get anything you wanted?
Hope so, you seem to be a really great kid.

[Uzume]

Ya, but the US public school system sucks in general, and been getting worse since the No Child Left Behind act. To sum it up: Let's make the students jump through hoops, and make the school pay for the hoops. And if too many kids fail, make the school pay even more.

Also if the child fails you just pass them anyways to make the school look good.

You all are so right it makes me sick. I've had to send my kids off to their grandparents so they would be in one of the best school districts here in Houston. It sucks for me, but I can't aford to live in the areas that would give them the education their getting now.
Being self taught, and one of those kids that basically took a test to pass three grades because of lack of attendace and not doing home work. My chidrens education, and conditioning their study skills is very important to me.
Sometimes the brightest students fail because of the way our school system is structured.

[Sionnach Glic]

[snipy] and been getting worse since the No Child Left Behind act.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the 'No Child Left Behind act', and why's it so bad?

[Uzume]

[snipy] and been getting worse since the No Child Left Behind act.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the 'No Child Left Behind act', and why's it so bad?

I dont know most of the details about that program, however the long term effects have lowered test scores, and put our public schools so far down the totem pole that the state doesn't see the need to fund books, or any other programs that benifit the students because of guess what, their test scores. It sucks.
I agree with Blackstar, make students jump through hoops. There are all kinds of study hall goups that kids can join if their having trouble, not to mention summer school. None of these kids are going to learn anything if it's handed to them. Not to mention the children who come from these schools who are trying to get into colledge or move to a better school district have to pick up a whole sh*t load of extra credit, or repeat a grade to do so. Everyone is losing.

[Sionnach Glic]

Exactly what was the government trying to do with such a policy?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

[snipy] and been getting worse since the No Child Left Behind act.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the 'No Child Left Behind act', and why's it so bad?

I dont know most of the details about that program, however the long term effects have lowered test scores, and put our public schools so far down the totem pole that the state doesn't see the need to fund books, or any other programs that benifit the students because of guess what, their test scores. It sucks.
I agree with Blackstar, make students jump through hoops. There are all kinds of study hall goups that kids can join if their having trouble, not to mention summer school. None of these kids are going to learn anything if it's handed to them. Not to mention the children who come from these schools who are trying to get into colledge or move to a better school district have to pick up a whole sh*t load of extra credit, or repeat a grade to do so. Everyone is losing.

That covers the basics. Students have to take standard tests, and if not enough students pass then the school has to pay for it. Usually in the form of textbooks, and those aren't cheap. Only a handfull of my high school classes had enough for everyone taking the class. Oh and here's the kicker: the percentage of students who have to pass increases every so often until it reaches 100% in a decade or so. With no regard for mentally disabled students I might add. Basically the only people who win are the companies who print textbooks.

When it's something teachers and students both dislike you know it has to be bad.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Exactly what was the government trying to do with such a policy?

Officially: Increase test score, make students smarter. Unofficially: put more money into the pockets of textbook companies.

[Sionnach Glic]

Hang on, let me see if I have this.

The government says that X% out of the school have to pass this year. If the school doesn't pass that many students, they have to pay for the textbooks.
The next year, the school has to pass 2X% of students, increasing every year until the % reaches an impossible amount.
Correct?

Okay, I can see straight off that this is stupid on multiple fronts. It fails to take into acount that there are some student who simply don't wish to learn, and honestly don't care about doing good in school.
However, getting ~90% of a 20 person class to pass is easy enough (usualy, only one or two out of my history class fail a test, and about three or so in my biology class, again because they simply don't want to learn). Is there a certain percent that students must get above a pass mark, or is it just a pass that you need?

Also, if the school does pass the required number of students, does the government buy the textbooks for the school?

Only a handfull of my high school classes had enough for everyone taking the class.

Jesus, how expensive are books in the US?

Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to know the rough percentage of students that have to pass for the school to pass?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

You got the gist of it.

Textbooks can cost anywhere from about 50-100 dollars for an average history book. Figure about 20-30 people per class that'll be $1000+ per class. My school usually made the books last a good 5-7 years, but that's still a good amount of money for one class. Then maybe three or four classes on that one subject, it adds up pretty fast. They might get discounts for getting them in bulk but it's still not cheap.

Only my history and math classes always had enough. The english teachers often had their resources pushed to the limit(ideally everyone would have one english class at any one time, although some have been doubled up in one semester) and other classes handed books out as needed for that class period.

[Uzume]

Well I don't think helping text book companies were what they had in mind when they started this program. In all reality their losing money. Our text books are not up to date therefore no new money is comming in for them.

I think they were trying to make sure more students pass. Though like you said Roche, alot of students don't care about school. Which means the ones who do are getting screwed out of a good education.

In my opinion, instead of lowering test standards they should have some kind of job program or trade classes in high schools for the kids who fit the profile, ie problematic. This way kids who make the grade, can. Those who can't or chose not to have something to fall back on. Not to mention how much better it would be economically in the long run.
Yes there is the jobfair program, however if we keep passing kids who don't or can't cut it, whats the need (in there mind) to go? You have to be sixteen to start, and no older than 21, I think. Once these kids get a daploma what s the need for jobfair? Again we have a whole bunch of people doing exactly what they would be doing, and a whole lot more not doing what they can.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Well I don't think helping text book companies were what they had in mind when they started this program. In all reality their losing money. Our text books are not up to date therefore no new money is comming in for them.

I think they were trying to make sure more students pass. Though like you said Roche, alot of students don't care about school. Which means the ones who do are getting screwed out of a good education.

In my opinion, instead of lowering test standards they should have some kind of job program or trade classes in high schools for the kids who fit the profile, ie problematic. This way kids who make the grade, can. Those who can't or chose not to have something to fall back on. Not to mention how much better it would be economically in the long run.

Then your school hasn't failed yet. When a school does fail they'll end up getting new more up to date textbooks. Remember, all this stuff happened in Washington. You don't think textbook companies didn't have a hand in all this?

Schools don't need better programs or books. They need better teachers. Most teachers don't care, I often heard "It doesn't matter to me if you pass or fail that's your choice". My HS' most contriversal teacher(well, when it came to teaching methods) was one of the best teachers I ever had. He took the time to talk to each student in his class, and I learned more about modern(past 50 or 60 years) history in one semester with him then in all my other classes combined. Most classes never even mentioned Vietnam as anything more then a foot note, but he taught us the who and the why rather then just when and how.

[Sionnach Glic]

Textbooks can cost anywhere from about 50-100 dollars for an average history book.

Ouch. I thought they were expensive over here, but that's insane.
Sticking with history, over here there are four books needed for the Leaving Certificate course, each of which costs about €20. The biology book costs about €40, but that's cause it's insanely large, and it comes with a workbook (much to my student's dismay ).

Remember, all this stuff happened in Washington. You don't think textbook companies didn't have a hand in all this?

Maybe I'm just being naive, but would a publishing company really have that much power that it could bring in a system like this for their own benifit?

My HS' most contriversal teacher(well, when it came to teaching methods) was one of the best teachers I ever had. He took the time to talk to each student in his class, and I learned more about modern(past 50 or 60 years) history in one semester with him then in all my other classes combined.

Why was he controversial? Because he talked to the students individualy? That's what I always do, but I wouldn't consider it controversial.

Most classes never even mentioned Vietnam as anything more then a foot note,

Gee, I wonder why.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Well, yes publishing companies can have that power. In DC, you just need to know the right politicians, and make a big enough contribution to them, you can get anything constitutional to pass these days.

And the teacher I mentioned was controversal because he didn't use text books, and would teach with a discussion rather then a lecture. Now the discussions occasionally went off topic, but we could learn more in one week then I've learned in year-long classes. And you never knew where the lesson might go. It was the kind of thing that made you want to go to class, to see what would happen next. His class was the only one I've always wanted to go to, and I took ever class he taught.