On Europe

[Mikey]

I guess, then, my confusion is etymological. How exactly did a term which - on its own - is defined geographically come to bear such a culturally and politically charged context?

[Captain Seafort]

Because, as has already been explained, of the EU.

[Mikey]

Because, as has already been explained, of the EU.

I call shenanigans. The EU isn't nearly old enough to be the cause of the deep-seated contextual nuances which GK describes.

[Graham Kennedy]

The first major moves towards the EU happened more than a decade before I was born. People have been pushing that "must be European" shit on me for my entire life.

[Mikey]

The first major moves towards the EU happened more than a decade before I was born. People have been pushing that "must be European" shit on me for my entire life.

Exactly what I mean. First, the moves toward an EU that were occurring 50 years ago were not "major." Second, that's not long enough to completely alter the meaning of a term to a whole national group.

[Captain Seafort]

First, the moves toward an EU that were occurring 50 years ago were not "major."

Yes they were. The principle of an ever-closer union was established right at the start, in the Treaty of Rome.

Second, that's not long enough to completely alter the meaning of a term to a whole national group.

The EU managed it.

[Graham Kennedy]

Yes it is. National consciousness can change over a generation, a decade, or even a day. It depends on what is changing it.

[BigJKU316]

It has probably been discussed before but what do you guys think of the EU? I am guessing the answer is not very highly but I am always curious. We spent a lot of time studying it in comparative government type courses when I was in college and the view of both US academics and students and the exchange students was generally that it was not going to work out long term if they tried to operate it like one state with the monetary union.

[Graham Kennedy]

It has probably been discussed before but what do you guys think of the EU?

I've said it before. The politicians in Europe all want it to be a single giant state like the US is. Most of the people don't want that and never have. The politicians think that the thing to do is therefore force it on the people, one little bit at a time. Just enough so that each step is accepted - and as we saw with the Irish referendum, if they don't accept it then they simply change the wording a little, arrange the publicity, and make you vote again until it goes their way.

It's exactly the wrong way to build a country, and so in the end it will fail. I will dance a little dance of joy on that day.

[Mikey]

Hopefully you will get the chance. Hopefully, it will fail without causing a great deal of collateral damage in the process, and will end up harming only itself as an institution.

[Deepcrush]

I just saw the "yank" line... Sorry but I'm going to call crybaby bullshit on that on. You are European if you're from Europe, someone from mississppi isn't a "yank" since they are lacking the "being from new England" part.

[Atekimogus]

Now I don't know if thats true but I always have the feeling that when an american mentions that one is an european it is always highly contextual.

For example if the context was about good food or surrendering european means french, if the context was being posh and educated it meant english and if the context was being punctual, to the point and with a slight chance of invading your backyard european means german

Also, everytime one doesn't freak out when seeing a nipple or just a bit of skin one seems to be also "european" to the US people .

(True story, just a few days ago the US embassy logged a formal protest to austria because US-tourists had to endure the sights of a beautiful lingerie-model advertisment in the streets of Vienna near, or more exactly covering a scaffolding at the St. Stephans cathedral. Well it sure seems our church has less a problem with semi-naked women than some US tourists )

[Graham Kennedy]

I just saw the "yank" line... Sorry but I'm going to call crybaby bullshit on that on. You are European if you're from Europe, someone from mississppi isn't a "yank" since they are lacking the "being from new England" part.

That's kind of the point I am making. To a Brit, "Yank" just means "American". Yes, that is inaccurate. That's the whole point, that words can mean different things to different people.

[Deepcrush]

It's not that they mean anything different, it's more like the Brits over inflated ego has impacted their ability to read a map.

Europe = Europe, thats all there is to it. Your from Europe and living in a country thats in Europe there for you are European.

[Mikey]

The problem is that you assume we mean something hidden in context, when in fact we mean "European" when we say "European." The "Yank" analogy is a flawed one, because it's a slang term for which you have consciously adopted a different definition than that we ascribe to the term "Yankee." "European" is no such derived or corrupted word. With you guys, it's like the old joke about talking to women: when a man says, "Let's stay home tonight, I'm tired," the woman thinks, "He thinks I'm fat" or "He's seeing someone else" or "What did I do to make him hate me?" The man is just thinking, "Let's stay home tonight, I'm tired."