How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

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Sonic Glitch
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How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Sonic Glitch »

Now, some of you may be aware of Bill O'Reilly's recent use of the tides to prove God exists. The tides come in, the tides go out. And there's never a miscommunication. The question is how does this happen? Every day, consistently, never a miscommunication.

Evidently the answer of "It's because of the moon, we've known it for years" from the Blogosphere was not enough. He has now rephrased his session:
Bill O'Reilly wrote:"How'd the moon get here? Look, you pinheads who attacked me for this, you guys are just desperate. How'd the moon get here? How'd the sun get there? How'd it get there? Can you explain that to me? How come we have that and Mars doesn't have it?"
Which led to someone doing This. The text is below, the link has pictures in it.
Once upon a time, humans looked at the tides -- going out and coming in -- and we had no idea what caused them. At high tides, the sea level would rise, and the coast would get swept up by the oceans, while at low tides, the water would recede, leaving tidepools behind.
Ocean_Tides.jpeg

(Image credit: smugmug.com.)

Low tides and high tides would each happen twice a day. But we started noticing that the highest high tides and the lowest low tides -- spring tides -- happened during new Moons and full Moons. On the other hands, the most moderate tides, where high tides were relatively low and low tides were relatively high -- neap tides -- happened during the first and last quarter Moon phases.

It wasn't long before we put this picture together.
whytides.gif

(Image credit: James Irwin.)

Sure enough, the Moon is the dominant cause of the tides, with the Sun responsible for about 30% of what we get. And thanks to the laws of gravity we understand how the tides work, even in more extreme cases.

But apparently, this isn't good enough for Bill O'Reilly. After stating that nobody can explain the tides and this proves the existence of God, many people (rightly) threw the Moon in his face.
full_moon.jpeg

But instead of retracting his statement, O'Reilly went one step farther into it, and delivered the rant quoted atop, complete with his five great questions. Some people attacked him, others defended him, but no one's tried to teach him.

Lucky for you, Bill, I am a patient man.
moon_formation1.jpeg

1.) How'd the Moon get here? I've tackled this before, but it's been years. The Giant Impact Hypothesis is the leading theory, as simulations and measurements of the Moon and Earth's interior both support it.
protoplanetary_disk.jpeg

Basically, in the young Solar System, you've got a star with a thin disk of matter orbiting it. Small gravitational instabilities create the first small objects. They then gravitationally attract larger ones, and the more mass you get, the more mass you pull in towards yourself.
20060129061406!Protoplanetary_disk.jpeg

Mercury managed to clear its orbit, as did Venus. But out by us, we had two large objects -- one roughly Venus-sized, one roughly Mars-sized -- and they finally caught up to each other.
ssc2005-01b.jpeg

The densest elements, of course, were primarily at the center, so when they collided, only the light elements in the crust and mantle should have gotten ejected to form the Moon, while the heaviest elements migrated down to the Earth's core. And in fact, our observations confirm that this is, in fact, the case.
Moon-Rocks.jpeg

(Image credit: California's Imaginarium.)

The Moon is almost completely devoid of iron, the densest abundant element on Earth. And the rocks the Apollo astronauts have brought back from the Moon have, conversely, demonstrated that the rocks on the Moon's surface -- unlike asteroids, meteorites, and Mars' rocks -- are identical in composition to the rocks on Earth's surface. So that's why we're pretty sure the Moon came from the collision of two proto-planets that collided, forming the Earth and the Moon as we know them today.
holding-the-sun.jpeg

2.) How'd the sun get there? Well, there's the entire scientific field of star formation devoted to the study of it, but here's the basic story. A molecular gas cloud -- many of which exist in our galaxy -- collapsed under its own gravity, probably triggered by the explosion of a dying, massive star.
srvr.jpeg

(Image credit: Canada-France-Hawaii telescope.)

And that gave rise to the Sun, along with a proto-planetary disk of gas and dust that collapsed to form the planets, comets, and asteroids, among other things.
413779main_planetsys.jpeg

(Image credit: David Hardy.)

3.) How'd it get there? Well, I assume you mean in context with everything else that's there. Our Sun lives in this place we call "the galaxy."
MilkyWay.jpeg

(Image credit: Axel Mellinger.)

A collection of hundreds of billions of stars, our star formed about 4.6 billion years ago out of a combination of pristine hydrogen gas from the Big Bang and recycled material from at least two previous generations of stars. Gravity holds our star in a stable orbit, about 25,000 light years from the center of our galaxy.
File:NGC4676.jpeg

4.) Can you explain that to me? Over time, galaxies grow and evolve through gravitational mergers with other galaxies. The Milky Way was likely a much smaller object in the past, that has since cannibalized other galaxies and grown to its present size. In fact, headed into the future, the Milky Way is likely to merge with the Andromeda galaxy, perhaps headed for an intense gravitational interaction like NGC 4676, above.
mars_moons.gif

5.) How come we have that and Mars doesn't have it? Mars doesn't have one big moon, like we do. It has two little ones, Phobos and Deimos, which give Mars its own annular eclipses.
Partial eclipse.gif

But Mars has its own interesting story that we're just figuring out, and this little guy has truly helped uncover it over the last six years.
marsOpportunity.jpeg

Now, you may tell me that science doesn't have all the answers, and you'd be right. After all, I don't have a good explanation for what caused inflation, which is the thing that sets up the Big Bang. But everything starting from that point or afterwards, we learn, and science is how we do it.
science.jpeg

(If you need an image credit for this, you aren't paying attention.)

And if you want an alternate take on Bill O'Reilly's latest, you can always listen to Stephen Colbert's extremely informed opinion on it.


Thanks to my buddy and loyal reader Dave for tipping me off to this one! And for everyone else out there, have a great weekend!
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by stitch626 »

So... long story short, Blackstar was a better debater than O'Reilly?

And, kudos the they guy who went and took the time to write that up. Nicely done, and rather respectful all things considered.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Lighthawk »

If there really was a god, surely he would spare us all from these kinds of people.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Sonic Glitch »

If there ever was a time we needed Carl Sagan to advocate science, it's now.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Sonic Glitch wrote:If there ever was a time we needed Carl Sagan to advocate science, it's now.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

...let alone the fact that moons are quite common in the solar system. There is a lot more to the system than Sol and a bunch of planets, as we all know. This is only part of the 'magic' needed to sustain our life on earth: we need to be in a "Goldilocks zone" in distance from the Sun to have liquid water and a magnetic field to deflect harmful radiation, etc.

But, there are rational explanations for all. The commonly accepted explanation for the formation of our moon (prote-Earth colliding with a Mars-sized object called Theia) fits in quite nicely with models of the early solar system. Magnetic fields are common properties of planets (Mars had one before its core froze over also). That all the required pieces fell into place on Earth, well that is easy to explain given the apparent common nature of planets themselves. Since it's now believed that most stars have planets the odds that one would be just right for life every now and then seem pretty good given the scale of the Cosmos.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Mikey »

Yes, I liked that comment of O'Reilly's as to how come "we have it and Mars doesn't?" Last time I checked, we shared the Sun with Mars, and it had two moons.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Tyyr »

This has to be a joke. O'Rielly is many things but this fucking stupid... I can't believe it.
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Nutso »

He's not alone...
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by Sonic Glitch »

Tyyr wrote:This has to be a joke. O'Rielly is many things but this f***ing stupid... I can't believe it.
I really wish that were the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW6yeMj3ORE
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Re: How'd the Moon get there? You pinheads

Post by McAvoy »

Par for course for Fox News then.
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