Noah's Ark found?

[Mikey]

Seems teachers of yester-year seemed to want "yes-men" more so than "students".

Fixed

That's completely biased and unfair for the sake of a simple gag. There are bad teachers, sure - just like there are bad scientists, bad garbagemen, bad bankers, and bad secretaries. In the U.S., at least, teachers get a bum rap because of tenure - there's not much to be done about the bad ones, whereas in other jobs someone who can't do their job well gets fired. Be that as it may, there are an awful lot of teachers out there who sacrifice their own time, money, and stress level in order to go above and beyond for their students, and who desire nothing more than to encourage their kids to think critically and independently.

[Sonic Glitch]

Seems teachers of yester-year seemed to want "yes-men" more so than "students".

Fixed

That's completely biased and unfair for the sake of a simple gag. There are bad teachers, sure - just like there are bad scientists, bad garbagemen, bad bankers, and bad secretaries. In the U.S., at least, teachers get a bum rap because of tenure - there's not much to be done about the bad ones, whereas in other jobs someone who can't do their job well gets fired. Be that as it may, there are an awful lot of teachers out there who sacrifice their own time, money, and stress level in order to go above and beyond for their students, and who desire nothing more than to encourage their kids to think critically and independently.

I'm sorry I'll rephrase that. mainly I am trying to say it's not just yesteryear, it's still around. I am a former education major myself, and I'm looking to get my teacher certification anyway at some point, and I have been blessed with great teachers. However it seems to me that, as a whole in the U.S. it's becoming harder and harder to find teachers/people in authority who don't want you to just agree with them.

[Edit] Of course that could be my own extremely cynical, pessimistic nature coming through as well.
[Further Edit] I think the real comment is: "Administrators seem to want "yes-men" for so than faculty/advisers/students" -- at least in my experience

[sunnyside]

Oh, the tendency for teachers to want you to agree with them and to be intolerant of those who do not is, in my opinion, as strong as ever. It's just that the demographics of what they want you to believe have shifted over time. A lot of you seem to have gone to Christian schools where you had to toe that line. In contrast there was a story recently about a college student whose opinion paper spoke poorly of homosexuals, and when he got it back it read "Ask God what your grade is."


I should qualify that somewhat. With math teachers not only isn't there a lot of room to add controversial opinions into the classroom, but it's also more likely that their personality is not that of someone who burns with idiology, though I'm sure there are some.

However I doubt someone chooses to become a teacher of history, english, liturature, etc because of their neutral dispassionate feeling towards the subject matter.

While each one may have a different opinion, I've yet to run accross one who could successfully divorce their positions from how they interact with the students. Oh, some people have called most of them great teachers I'm sure....those that agree with them that is. And that applies from both the "big" issues to minor things like which authors are their favorites.

In any case despite my somewhat poor grammar and phrasing and a dislike of "being deep", I've always managed excellent grades in such classes, which I in part attribute to attempting to learn the teacher along with the subject matter.

[Sonic Glitch]

Oh, the tendency for teachers to want you to agree with them and to be intolerant of those who do not is, in my opinion, as strong as ever. It's just that the demographics of what they want you to believe have shifted over time. A lot of you seem to have gone to Christian schools where you had to toe that line. In contrast there was a story recently about a college student whose opinion paper spoke poorly of homosexuals, and when he got it back it read "Ask God what your grade is."


I should qualify that somewhat. With math teachers not only isn't there a lot of room to add controversial opinions into the classroom, but it's also more likely that their personality is not that of someone who burns with idiology, though I'm sure there are some.

However I doubt someone chooses to become a teacher of history, english, liturature, etc because of their neutral dispassionate feeling towards the subject matter.

While each one may have a different opinion, I've yet to run accross one who could successfully divorce their positions from how they interact with the students. Oh, some people have called most of them great teachers I'm sure....those that agree with them that is. And that applies from both the "big" issues to minor things like which authors are their favorites.

In any case despite my somewhat poor grammar and phrasing and a dislike of "being deep", I've always managed excellent grades in such classes, which I in part attribute to attempting to learn the teacher along with the subject matter.

Excuse me. I choose to become a history teacher. Granted I am no longer in that program, but it was my first choice. Do I have strong feelings on history and how government should operate? Yes. Do I let them get in my way when explaining something? I try not to. I believe in a balanced education. For example, the actions by the Texas State School Board piss me off not because of what they are trying to include but because they are cutting things to make them fit. I don't believe in cutting Thomas Jefferson to at St. Thomas Aquinas. I believe in teaching both Jefferson and Aquinas.

[Sionnach Glic]

Most teachers I know are quite capable of divorcing their political, religious and idealogical views from the curriculum they're teaching. There are always a few (mostly in the English and Literature classes) who stretch things a bit too far to make it seems like Shakespeare (or whoever) agrees with their chosen beliefs, but they're in the minority.

Things like maths, physics, biology, chemistry and other classes which focus on a logical mindset tend to be completely devoid of such people. Because, as you say, it's pretty hard to say that Newton's Second Law of gravity means you should vote Sinn Fein.
For the most part, history is much the same. We've plenty of records dealing with the major events of the last few centuries. The only area for promoting your own views would be about whether rounding Native Americans up into reservations was a fair move, or if it was a good idea for DeValera to start the Irish Civil War. Any teacher worth the title should be able to teach the events, their causes and their implications without also stating whether he agrees with the event.

[Mikey]

Oh, some people have called most of them great teachers I'm sure....those that agree with them that is. And that applies from both the "big" issues to minor things like which authors are their favorites.

No, those are the "buddy" teachers. The ones that people call "great" are the ones who acknowledge their own idiosyncracies and ideologies and the divorce themselves from teaching them as part of the factual subject matter. Some aren't able to do this; most people outside of education are unable to do this. But there are more teachers than you think who are capable of it.

[sunnyside]

Perhaps I should elaborate a little.

There are flagrantly "bad" teachers who come pushing an idology obviously or whatnot. I'm talking about teachers where the students that think like they do would probably say that they DO " divorce their political, religious and idealogical views from the curriculum they're teaching"

However seperating one's personal strongly held beliefs from how subject matter is taught, how students are interacted with, and how students are evaluated in subjective papers and the like is no simple task. This becomes much less pronounced in the sort of classes where the teacher lectures to a silent class and than hands out the occasional multiple choice test, and more pronounced in classes with active student participation and written papers.

I said I haven't interacted with a teacher that I felt truely was able to do this, however I have had teachers that have told they class that they would.

I sometimes wonder if they're lying to themselves or just the students. Again this isn't to the degree some of you have experienced, rather it's that by going with what they agree with and the sources they believe in you'll have an easier time putting together something that will get a good grade than if you are going against the grain.

[Mikey]

Wow, you must have had some really bad teachers to make you so cynical. I'd agree that divorcing one's personal ideology from a subject matter is hard - in fact, I'd call it nigh impossible. But the best professors I've had were aware of it, and announced it publicly in order to allow the students to determine if some personal opinion crept into the matter at hand. And a I've encountered a great many teachers who appreciated a student's ability to think critically and develop a supported mindset more than they appreciated a student's willingness to kowtow. Of course, there are also a great many students who just differ for the sake of differing; saying "I disagree" without a basis usually is - and should be - disdained.

[stitch626]

One of my teachers wouldn't even tell us his opinion on topics (because he wanted to not appear biased if he said anything against our opinions). This was annoying, especially because it was a politics class.

[Mikey]

One of my teachers wouldn't even tell us his opinion on topics (because he wanted to not appear biased if he said anything against our opinions). This was annoying, especially because it was a politics class.

I'd think the proper thing to do would be to express his opinions as early as possible, and make it perfectly clear that they were his opinions as opposed to facts of the subject matter.

[Mark]

My government teacher did just that. He told us right from the get-go he was an arch conservative. He joked "I wouldn't even change my underwear if my wife didn't make me." Still, he gave us an even handed account of Republicans and Democrats. He was one of the good ones.

[Nickswitz]

My government teacher did just that. He told us right from the get-go he was an arch conservative. He joked "I wouldn't even change my underwear if my wife didn't make me." Still, he gave us an even handed account of Republicans and Democrats. He was one of the good ones.

Yeah, well Stitch's depiction isn't exactly accurate, he's very blunt about his opinions, as long as you don't agree with them, he enjoys an argument, it makes it interesting.

[stitch626]

He's also very willing to state his opinions after the year was over. His reason was quite valid; he always found that when he did mention his opinion, more students would side with him in class discussions, so by not mentioning it, the students have to come up with their own instead of borrowing his.