Federation Battlestar

[DarkMoineau]

I would give the Raptor the same shield system as the Viper. Makes service and repair easier.

Oh yes, i understand and agree but Viper's shield is a 80 000Tj shield

[Captain Seafort]

By all rights fire control should be so heavily automated that the ship nearly fights itself with the battle staff simply prioritizing the targets as needed. The AEGIS system was doing this in the 1970's with computing power that is less than a high end laptop you can buy today so really it should not be that hard. Hell, the USN put a couple of pretty neat systems out there in WWII that used mechanical computers and optics that basically let one main train and fire all of the guns (except light AA) on a ship and it made sure they did not fire in such a way as to damage the ship itself.

There should be individual backups for sure, but your central fire control system, given the technology avaliable to them, should be able to effectively handle spiltting the sky and de-conflicting targeting without having to resort to any local control.

So, what I said then. The issue regarding Aegis comparison is that IIRC it can a) only handle a few thousand targets and b) was never intended to operate as a single entity, but as part of a battle group, with other ships covering other angles.

[BigJKU316]

By all rights fire control should be so heavily automated that the ship nearly fights itself with the battle staff simply prioritizing the targets as needed. The AEGIS system was doing this in the 1970's with computing power that is less than a high end laptop you can buy today so really it should not be that hard. Hell, the USN put a couple of pretty neat systems out there in WWII that used mechanical computers and optics that basically let one main train and fire all of the guns (except light AA) on a ship and it made sure they did not fire in such a way as to damage the ship itself.

There should be individual backups for sure, but your central fire control system, given the technology avaliable to them, should be able to effectively handle spiltting the sky and de-conflicting targeting without having to resort to any local control.

So, what I said then. The issue regarding Aegis comparison is that IIRC it can a) only handle a few thousand targets and b) was never intended to operate as a single entity, but as part of a battle group, with other ships covering other angles.

Well a few thousand targets it quite a lot really given the amount of weapons you can fire at one time you really don't need a system that goes beyond what you can engage, plus with an increase in computing power in the Trek timeline you should be able to up that to some sort of number beyond sufficient to handle most anything out there.

The system can operate on its own. It is at its best when part of a battle group with networked sensor pictures, airborne early warning and so on but functionally it works quite fine on its own (the main limit being the curvature of the earth limiting radar horizons). But that gets into another issue I have with Trek which is the total lack of a) networked battle systems for fleets and b) the complete lack of a flag bridge type area from which one could command the large fleets we see in DS9. I am not an expert (though I did work for a while with the USN on issues related to this) but a Captain shouting orders to one Ferengi ensign strikes me as a bad method for relaying orders to a fleet and moving in a coordinated fashion.

But again, that opens a whole different can of worms which is that not only should the ships be able to do this sort of stuff but whole fleets should be able to. Years and years were spent programing systems to handle this kind of stuff. It is damn near as important if not more important than the weapons systems themselves but Trek races seem to ignore it all together.

Imagine how much more useful Akira's would be if they were properly networked and programed so that say 6 of them were firing time on target barrages at various tagerts? Assuming you can loop the course for a PT a bit it is not unrealistic to expect with proper command and control systems to be able to put 72 to nearly 300 torpedoes on one target so they all impact within a second or two. All you really have to do is lengthen the flight path of the first couple barrages by looping their course a bit to account for firing the next few. That strikes me as a far smarter way to fight than having the thing cruise around by itself, blasting at targets of opportunity by themselves.

That is what always irked me a bit. The math and programing to do that exist now. But given the technology they were using none of the tactics made any sense.

[Reliant121]

Thats part of what we are saying. This system needs to be able to track every ship that comes to it, not so it can fire on it, but so it can coordinate the fighter wings to engage them. Plus, the Aegis system, while it works on its own, isn't designed to operate like this ship does.

This ship needs a combat system that works at its absolute best when the ships lone wolf, because thats what a battlestar does (as I understand it). This thing will have no support ships, no early warning ships, its a deep strike leviathan with only its fighters as protection. Which is why an Aegis style system is ineffective for this ship.

[Mark]

Raptor class Multirole Interstellar craft (Scout, Mobile Base, Heavy Bomber, Rescue Ship)

Length 23.1m
Beam 14m
Height 6m
Decks 1
Crew 2 - 6 (depending on mission op, max evacuation limit 40)

Armament:

6 Type IV phaser arrays
Total output 1000 Terrawatts

2 Mirco photon torpedo launchers with 24 rounds each

Underbelly mountings for heavy anti-starship ordinance

Defense:

Regenerative Shield System
Total Capacity 80,000 TeraJoules
Light Duranium/Tritanium Hull
Low Level SIF

Warp Speed
Normal Cruise: Warp 9.5
Maximum Cruise: Warp 9.9
Emergency Speed: Warp 9.95 for twelve hours


Fixed

[BigJKU316]

Thats part of what we are saying. This system needs to be able to track every ship that comes to it, not so it can fire on it, but so it can coordinate the fighter wings to engage them. Plus, the Aegis system, while it works on its own, isn't designed to operate like this ship does.

This ship needs a combat system that works at its absolute best when the ships lone wolf, because thats what a battlestar does (as I understand it). This thing will have no support ships, no early warning ships, its a deep strike leviathan with only its fighters as protection. Which is why an Aegis style system is ineffective for this ship.

Ok, you are taking what I am saying way too literally. I would simply say this in the trek universe; this ship needs some sort of combat management system period because none of them appear to have that at the moment. Obviously I am not saying plop vintage 1970's tech on the thing, just that it should be quite possible to design a system that makes this all very automated given the computer capabilities they have. Obviously they need it to do things other than just air defense so it will be a different system.

However this theory of a ship operating on its own is somewhat lunacy in and of itself. Simply put the thing is far to expensive (or whatever term you want to apply to the fact you can't make very many of them) to just send running around without a large escort, particularly in a wartime environment. Especially if this thing is slower than most of its contemporary ships at a cruise of warp 9 to 9.5 when the latest Federation and Romulan designs are in the 9.7 to 9.9 plus range.

[Reliant121]

I didn't take it quite that literally. I meant the concept. Aegis is a fleet combat management system, not a lone combat system.


The second point is where it gets shady. A ship operating on its own is precisely what a Battlestar is. If you think thats pointless, then thats fine. But whatever you come up with isn't a Battlestar, its merely a fucking great battleship. Battlestars are designed to operate alone, thats their entire purpose. Galactica, as far as I know, did it most of the time. The expense is designed to be negated by the pure power. This thing could shred a cube in mere seconds, without breaking a sweat which was the whole point of the design.

[Mark]

I'd be interested in seeing the Battlestar in action. Maybe we could get Rochey or Staplic to run one our DITL battles with a Battlestar vs a Borg Tactical Cube and see how well she fares in real action. I'm sure Deep and I could flip a coin to see which one of us gets to Captain her

[Deepcrush]

I would give the Raptor the same shield system as the Viper. Makes service and repair easier.

Oh yes, i understand and agree but Viper's shield is a 80 000Tj shield

and the Raptor is 75000, which is why I said this...

[Deepcrush]

First off, we are losing track of where we are on the design. We still haven't finished the weapon's system yet. Nor have we set up a power supply or C3. Since the combat control systems are run from C3, we are going to wait on that for now. The point for now is to work things in order, not to jump around on topics.

Second, Reliant is right that a Battlestar is a solo ship at heart. She can work with other ships but the value of the Battlestar is that they can travel alone and take on whole enemy squadrons at a time. Plus we have to remember how easy it is to jam controls and comms in Trek. Those factors will have to be taken into account WHEN we get to the C3 section.

Third, yes Mark we will have to try out a DITL battle at some point. Maybe the Battlestar vs a Borg Tactical Cube.

[Mark]

Ok, if the Vipers and Raptors pass muster, then lets finish the tactical systems. AFAIK, torps are not shielded, so micro torps and low intensity phasers with a very rapid rate of fire should be ideal for point defense.

Now, I had an idea. In Way of the Warrior, we saw a tractor beam can be used to diffuse the energy of a beam weapon. Do you think that is something we can make use of as a means of stopping incoming enemy beam weapons?

[DarkMoineau]

I would give the Raptor the same shield system as the Viper. Makes service and repair easier.

Oh yes, i understand and agree but Viper's shield is a 80 000Tj shield

and the Raptor is 75000, which is why I said this...

It's the same shield or not?

[Mark]

I already changed it. They both have the same shielding system now, at 80,000.

[Captain Seafort]

AFAIK, torps are not shielded

What gave you that idea? If torps weren't shielded, how would they have an EM frequency as we saw in Generations?

Now, I had an idea. In Way of the Warrior, we saw a tractor beam can be used to diffuse the energy of a beam weapon. Do you think that is something we can make use of as a means of stopping incoming enemy beam weapons?

That should be possible, but you'd need to apply significantly more power to the tractor beam than the firing ship could - that's how the E-D blocked Picard's attack in "The Battle".

[Mark]

If torps weren't shielded, how would they have an EM frequency as we saw in Generations?

There are several dozen different technobabble ways that could have been achieved. But most realistically, a torp is designed for warp, thus would require navagational deflector shields, which aren't really significant against incoming attacks (unless they're lasers I guess). We've seen no evidence of combat shields on a torp, so.................................