Plane Carrying Polish President Crashes In Russia

[Sionnach Glic]

No survivors according to the Russians.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and scores of others are believed to have been killed in a plane crash in Russia.

Officials in the Smolensk region said no-one had survived after the plane apparently hit trees as it came in for landing in thick fog.

Several other government figures, including the army chief of staff, were also thought to have been on board.

They were in Russia to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when the Soviets killed thousands of Poles.

The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the crash is a catastrophe for the Polish people.

He says Prime Minister Donald Tusk was reportedly in tears when he was told.

Plane 'hit trees'

The Russian emergencies ministry told Itar-Tass news agency the plane crashed at 1056 Moscow time (0656 GMT).


Lech Kaczynski, file image

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Ministry spokeswoman Irina Andrianova said it had been flying from Moscow to Smolensk, but had no details on the identities of those killed.

Smolensk regional governor Sergei Antufiev told Russian TV that no-one had survived.

"As it was preparing for landing, the Polish president's aircraft did not make it to the landing strip," he said.

"According to preliminary reports, it got caught up in the tops of trees, fell to the ground and broke up into pieces. There are no survivors in that crash.

"We are clarifying how many people there were in the [Polish] delegation. According to preliminary reports, 85 members of the delegation and the crew."

Russian investigators said there were a total of 132 people on the plane.

Controversial figure

The president was flying in a Tupolev 154, a plane that was designed in the 1960s and capable of carrying more than 100 passengers.

Smolensk map

Our correspondent says there had been calls for Polish leaders to upgrade their planes.

As well as the president and his wife, Maria, a number of senior officials were also said to be on the passenger list.

They included the army chief of staff Gen Franciszek Gagor, central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer.

Mr Kaczynski has been a controversial figure in Polish politics, advocating a right-wing Catholic agenda.

He has opposed rapid free-market reforms and favoured retaining social welfare programmes.

[Monroe]

Ouch! Really a sad day for Poland today.

[Sionnach Glic]

Indeed. And they were just on their way to a memorial ceremony in Russia that was supposed to help ease relations between their two countries.

[Sionnach Glic]

Holy shit. A list of the people killed in the crash according to the Polish president's office:

Presidential and governmental figures

Lech Kaczyński, President of Poland
Maria Kaczyńska, First Lady of Poland
Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
SÅ‚awomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Military figures

Lieutenant General Andrzej BÅ‚asik, Chief of the Polish Air Force
Major General Tadeusz Buk, Commander of the Polish Land Forces
General Franciszek GÄ…gor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy

Senat members

Krystyna Bochenek, Deputy Speaker of the Senat
Stanisław Zając, member of the Senat

Sejm members

Leszek Deptuła, member of the Sejm
Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
Janina Fetlińska, member of the Senat
Grażyna Gęsicka, member of the Sejm
Przemysław Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
Sebastian Karpiniuk, member of the Sejm
Aleksandra Natalli-Åšwiat, member of the Sejm
Krzysztof Putra, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
Arkadiusz Rybicki, member of the Sejm
Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm
Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
Wiesław Woda, member of the Sejm
Edward Wojtas, member of the Sejm

Religious figures

Archbishop Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army
Tadeusz PÅ‚oski, bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
Ryszard Rumianek, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University

Others

Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights
Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
Piotr Nurowski, President of the Polish Olympic Committee
Maciej Płażyński, President of the Polish Community Association
Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of the Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites
Anna Walentynowicz, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity
All eight crewmembers

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Holy s**t. A list of the people killed in the crash according to the Polish president's office:

Presidential and governmental figures

Lech Kaczyński, President of Poland
Maria Kaczyńska, First Lady of Poland
Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
SÅ‚awomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Military figures

Lieutenant General Andrzej BÅ‚asik, Chief of the Polish Air Force
Major General Tadeusz Buk, Commander of the Polish Land Forces
General Franciszek GÄ…gor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy

Senat members

Krystyna Bochenek, Deputy Speaker of the Senat
Stanisław Zając, member of the Senat

Sejm members

Leszek Deptuła, member of the Sejm
Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
Janina Fetlińska, member of the Senat
Grażyna Gęsicka, member of the Sejm
Przemysław Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
Sebastian Karpiniuk, member of the Sejm
Aleksandra Natalli-Åšwiat, member of the Sejm
Krzysztof Putra, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
Arkadiusz Rybicki, member of the Sejm
Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm
Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
Wiesław Woda, member of the Sejm
Edward Wojtas, member of the Sejm

Religious figures

Archbishop Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army
Tadeusz PÅ‚oski, bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
Ryszard Rumianek, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University

Others

Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights
Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
Piotr Nurowski, President of the Polish Olympic Committee
Maciej Płażyński, President of the Polish Community Association
Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of the Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites
Anna Walentynowicz, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity
All eight crewmembers

Holy shit! That's what, most of their government there?

[Sionnach Glic]

Pretty much. In one crash they've lost a good chunk of their government. This is why you don't put large amounts of important people on the one bloody plane.

On an interesting note, the president of Georgia has awarded the (former) president of Poland the Order Of The National Hero Of Georgia and declared a day of mourning. What's the bet he's going to try pinning the blame on Russia?

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Oh, military figures too. No bets, Sionnach

[Captain Seafort]

Pretty much. In one crash they've lost a good chunk of their government. This is why you don't put large amounts of important people on the one bloody plane.

Not really. The military's been decapitated, but if the Poles are even halfway competent the chain of command will re-establish itself. As for the government, they've lost the president and most of his personal staff, but the real business of government is done by the prime minister and his cabinet, none of whom were on board. I think the most serious issue is what the Sejm is, how big it is, and what the effect of losing so many members will be.

[Lazar]

I think the most serious issue is what the Sejm is, how big it is, and what the effect of losing so many members will be.

The Sejm is the lower house of the parliament, with 460 members. They don't appear to have lost any party or committee leaders, so they shouldn't be too badly effected.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Okay, according to the local papers, they've already set the apparatus in motion for replacement elections.

[Tyyr]

There's a Pollack joke to be had somewhere in here, I just know it.

[Sionnach Glic]

This isn't a joke, but try and guess how my aunt found out about this.

It wasn't by seeing it on the news, or hearing about it in the street, or anything simple like that. A week ago she dropped something heavy on the cistern of her toilet, and since then it's not been working properly. So naturally she called a plumber to fix it. The day of the crash, the Polish plumber called her up to let her know that he wouldn't be able to make it, and told her what happened.

Stereotypes in action, I guess.

[Mikey]

There's a Pollack joke to be had somewhere in here, I just know it.

Yep. Last night, a Polish immigrant woman was interviewed in an "on-the-street" bit on a local news station, outside of (I'm not making it up) St. Stanislaus' Church. This was, obviously, before any info could be recovered from the flight recorders, and this woman began to bitch about "what were those pilots doing?" In actuality, current conventional wisdom, corroborated by the former Polish president, says that the pilots were probably inclined to heed the Russians' warning about Smolensk and avoid the fog, but the bigwigs in the back pressured the pilots to try and put the bird down.