Latest Type 45 hits the water

[Graham Kennedy]

http://www.royal-navy.org/lib/index.php ... _the_Clyde

With an 18-metre-long Welsh Dragon attached to its bow, the Royal Navy's latest Type 45 destroyer, to be called HMS Dragon, was launched from BVT's shipyard at Govan into the Clyde yesterday, Monday 17 November 2008.

Dragon, the fourth Type 45 destroyer, will join her sister ships as one of the largest and most powerful warships in the world.

* A Type 45 has a range of around 7,000 nautical miles (12,964 kilometres) - that's New York and back without refuelling.
* The hull structure is made of 2,800 tonnes of steel which is more than the weight of the Blackpool Tower.
* Her 152-metre length is equivalent to more than 16 double decker buses and she is as high as an electricity pylon.
* Her fuel tanks have a volume equivalent to approximately half that of an Olympic-sized swimming pool.
* Approximately 40 tonnes of paint will have to be applied to cover an area of 100,000 square metres of steel.
* Each PAAMS air defence missile is approximately the size of ten beer barrels stacked end-on-end, weighing almost as much as a small car, and from launch accelerates to a speed twice that of Concorde in under ten seconds.

Cool ship. I like the T45s, though they have a bit too much "fitted for but not with" for my liking.

Daring :



Dragon :

[Reliant121]

I like the design and the spec. however I think it does miss out on SSM capability. However, from what my wonderful source of information tells me, the likelyhood of a major Ship-to-ship battle these days is so low, it isnt necessary anyway. Besides, Campbeltown Used to use her Helo for ship to ship/subsurface warfare.

[Graham Kennedy]

One of those "for but not with" items is that she's designed with spots for two quad Harpoon launchers, but they're not buying the Harpoons. She's also built for an EH-101 heli, but they can't fire the Sea Skua as yet. I've seen it suggested that as the Type 23 Frigates retire their Harpoons may be moved over to the Type 45s. I guess they might move the Stingrays over too, and I assume the EH-101 will be modded to take Sea Skua (or its replacement) eventually, too.

Actually I have to laugh at these being called "the most powerful ships". The Astor seems very capable to be sure... but there's only of those 48 carried along with the gun and CIWS. No ship to ship capability, no land attack capability, no torpedoes even. Most powerful? Hmm.

Just like the British government to pay out for huge expensive billion pound hulls and then penny pinch the last hundred million to strip most of the capability off them.

[Reliant121]

Dad seems to think the UK should go down a route similar to the Scandinavian countries. Small, fast missile boats for defending our waters.

[Graham Kennedy]

I think that would be a huge mistake. The Royal Navy is capable of global reach, if not really of full on long range power projection. With the new Aircraft Carriers it's going to be just about the only Navy outside the US that can sail anywhere in the world and do significant damage when it gets there. Going from that to a coastal defence force would be a gigantic step down in capability.

Besides, frankly we don't really need a military defence of our coastline. Who's going to attack us? The only Navies that could come anywhere near are all long term allies.

The kind of thing we need to be able to do is contribute to UN security missions and disaster relief in far off parts. That's how we justify membership of the UN security council, which is a position well worth having.

[Reliant121]

Yeah, I kinda expected a response as such. Dad's opinion of most things is that it isn't our business.

[Captain Seafort]

Yeah, I kinda expected a response as such. Dad's opinion of most things is that it isn't our business.

Maintaining an expeditionary capability to justify our place on the P5 is one thing, and is debatable. However, while the Empire has shrunk somewhat over the last half century, it still exists, and we need to retain the ability to defend it (or retake it, if we get caught on the hop again).

[Aaron]

Guys, most naval SAM's can be used in an ASM capacity.

[Graham Kennedy]

I'd bet the Aster can't, though. <heads for google>

[Tyyr]

So far I'm not finding any mention of SSM capability for the PAAMS

[Aaron]

Neither am I. The Type 45's can carry a chopper though, so it's not the big deal folks seem to think it is. The days of a large scale sea threat are gone, thanks to the Russian Navy rusting away. A chopper is fine for plinking whatever might come along, actually better as it's not limited to the horizon in engagements. I'm sure the UK will squirrel away the Harpoons in War Stores anyways.

[sunnyside]

I think the emphasis on air defense is wise, as in most recent/anticipated conflicts the major threat to the fleet would be land based fighters or missiles. And the offensive power can come from carriers or other ships.


However while major fleets aren't so likely to clash, most nations have some corvettes and fast missile boats with anti-ship missiles. As an escort these destroyers would be ahead of the fleet and in a Falklands style conflict, find themselves in a position to attack a surface target but not be able to.

[Aaron]

Most likely the fleet in this scenario would have at least one SSN attached. They are more then capable of ranging ahead and clearing out the missile boats. Not that such craft would be of any serious threat anyways. You'd have to have a large amount of those things to overwhelm the defences of a battlegroup.

[Reliant121]

in Falklands, the only threat to the UK expeditionary force on the waters where either the Generale Belgrano or the Buente Cinco De Mayo. And in exactly that situation, Belgrano went down. As Kendall said, The Conquerer(affectionately named "conks" in the RN) ranged ahead of the fleet and took her down. Hence the Carrier group turned round. A SSN, either of the Trafalgar or the new Astute class, is more than capable of clearing any threat that the battlegroup would face before they even reach the area.

And then the only threat was from the....was it Mirages that attacked? in that vein, the Type-45 is perfect.

[Graham Kennedy]

Although the T45s can carry an EH-101, the EH-101 as yet cannot fire the Sea Skua missile. That means it's only anti ship weapon is machine guns.

And yes, an SSN is a great way to take out enemy ships. But SSNs are rare; the Lynx / Sea Skua combo was needed repeatedly in both the Falklands and Gulf wars despite the presence of SSNs.

My hope is that they will make the 101 capable of carrying the Sea Skua - actually my hope is that the Skua gets a replacement anyway, it's an old missile these days. And that they stick Harpoons onto the T45s as they become available.