Mothball Upgrades

[Mikey]

I could see it only in a limited sense, when such a conversion wouldn't require too much effort (as Deep mentioned.) Miranda -> Soyuz, for example.

[Mark]

Again, I'm talking for a temporary basis, until Starfleet could replenish itself.

[McAvoy]

Sorry to bring this back up. Alot people like to point out surface ships in the navies as an example. Which is fine, there are plenty of examples out there. The Iowas are a recent example, the USS Midway being a great example of how far you can go. Though the Midway was never considered an equal to the other super carriers it was a good effort.

But I always figured starships are more like submarines. On surface ships you can just add stuff to the superstructure or even rebuild it with some effort. Rebuilding a submarine on the other hand is much, more difficult. Take for example, the US Navy practically rebuilding their WW2 submarines in early 1950's.


In this picture, USS Cutlass SS-478 is a World War 2 era submarine. Trench class to be exact, commissioned in 1945.


Same ship, but now rebuilt to the Guppy class. Rebuilt to the Guppy class in 1948, three years after being commissioned. Comparing the two pictures they look like they belong to totally different classes. This picture was taken in the 1960's.

This isn't a one ship deal either, the US Navy did this to alot of their submarines.

[Aaron]

Sorry to bring this back up. Alot people like to point out surface ships in the navies as an example. Which is fine, there are plenty of examples out there. The Iowas are a recent example, the USS Midway being a great example of how far you can go. Though the Midway was never considered an equal to the other super carriers it was a good effort.

But I always figured starships are more like submarines. On surface ships you can just add stuff to the superstructure or even rebuild it with some effort. Rebuilding a submarine on the other hand is much, more difficult. Take for example, the US Navy practically rebuilding their WW2 submarines in early 1950's.


In this picture, USS Cutlass SS-478 is a World War 2 era submarine. Trench class to be exact, commissioned in 1945.


Same ship, but now rebuilt to the Guppy class. Rebuilt to the Guppy class in 1948, three years after being commissioned. Comparing the two pictures they look like they belong to totally different classes. This picture was taken in the 1960's.

This isn't a one ship deal either, the US Navy did this to alot of their submarines.

Yes but refitting a submarine is complicated by it's pressure hull, which has to maintain certain air pressure inside yet resist the exterior water pressure. How would that work in space? Honest question BTW.

[stitch626]

Its just the reverse with a starship. Maintain internal pressure without it "leaking" out.

[McAvoy]

Pretty much.

But the point is that it's fun to point out the numerous examples of battleships, cruisers, and carriers how much they can be rebuilt, but things is that it's easy to build a super structure on a ship. Because all you have to worry about stability, structure strength and various small things. With submarines, everything is an issue. On top of that the US rebuilds of their WW2 submaries to the Guppy I, II and III classes, some of these submarines were cut in half to lengthen them.

These submarines were basically brad new ships when finished.

[USSEnterprise]

In Yesterday's Enterprise, didn't captian Garret (was that her name?) try to get Pricard to give her some weapons? The E-D was from a more militeristic Starfleet so it would be safe to assume that the weapons system were more powerful.

[Mikey]

Yes, but that's not really the same as an upgrade or refit. Those ships were designed and built in an evnironment of long-standing war, so would have been more militaristic from the keel up.

[USSEnterprise]

Didn't Tasha suggest that they upgrade the Enterprise C with new weapons and shields before then sent her back though?

[Mikey]

Sure - I would, too. Just because she wanted it doesn't mean it's a feasible project; nor does it refer to the extent of the upgrade proposed.

[USSEnterprise]

She was refering enough of an upgrade where they would take out the three (I think) Romulan Warbirds with ease. Given that she suggested it to Picard, it had to be a reasonable project.

[Aaron]

How would this even be possible? She's proposing swapping out 20 year old (trashed at that) kit for brand new stuff? How would the E-C even generate enough power for these new weapons and shields, would they even fit in the current mountings, do they have time, is the old stuff even able to be removed etc, etc.

[USSEnterprise]

Errr...Magic? I really don't know, given that they are at war and I think they were close to Klingon space, the refit wouldn't have taken long. I haven't seen the ep in a long time, so I could be wrong.

[Captain Seafort]

How would this even be possible? She's proposing swapping out 20 year old (trashed at that) kit for brand new stuff? How would the E-C even generate enough power for these new weapons and shields, would they even fit in the current mountings, do they have time, is the old stuff even able to be removed etc, etc.

That would certainly apply to the phasers and shields, but torpedoes are another matter - comparing the ones in TWoK and TUC to those in DS9, the casings don't appear to have changed in the best part of a century. While the software may have changed enough to render the weapons of the E-C and E-D incompatible, it's at least plausible that the latter may have been able to significantly increase the former's combat effectiveness by restocking her torpedo magazines.

[Aaron]

True enough in regards to the torpedoes, I can't actually remember if the intent was to have the E-C win the engagement or just last longer but IIRC her shields were not in great shape when she went back. Maybe if they somehow got the drop on the Romulans.