Tyyr wrote:Which one? Give us everything or some day we'll nuke the western tip of the Aleutians?
No the "if any of our ships are stopped for inspection we will declare war" one.
I sorta hope they do. Then we can just get it over with before they have real nukes.
Why can't we just put bullets in Kim Jong Il, again?
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
stitch626 wrote:No the "if any of our ships are stopped for inspection we will declare war" one.
Sure, go for it. We have a couple little things called a Navy and an Air Force. North Korea is pretty much limited to sitting on their half of the peninsula and glaring at us. If they invade the south they know we'll take the opportunity to level anything even remotely useful for nuclear weapon making. In other words if they declare war we paste them and they can't do jack shit to actually threaten the US.
Indeed. All they can do is rattle their increasingly rusty sabre at everyone around them. They're well aware that if they even start thinking bad thoughts about Seoul then their regime turns into a big smoking crater.
Of course, the problem is that they could seriously fuck up Seoul and most of northern SK if they ever did declare war, but they're not that suicidal.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
That's the key. Kim Jong Il is a petty dictator. His main goal is not to conqueror SK, or dominate the globe, or threaten the West. He's in it for the power. If he were to get into a shooting war with SK and the US that's game over. He might do some major damage but an increasingly obsolete military and his problems just feeding his populace pretty much doom him to failure, and failure means he loses all his power. He might talk big and rattle his saber but he knows if he actually does anything its game over.
Aye. That's why I've no real problems with him being head of NK. My fears will start when the current group of leaders die out and the younger ones, who have grown up being fed on propaganda about how they could easily crush their enemies, take over the helm.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
Do not underestimate NK. The US is in no place to really stop them, NATO would be slow to mobilise (Slow as in a few months by which time the damage is done. China would cut off all aid and support from NK but they wouldnt acitivly fight to stop them nor would Russia.
The States would provide air support and knock out key infustructure, but dispite its technological inferiority NK could fuck SK over so bad that all of Asia would be thrown into a economic slump so deep it will take decades to climb out of, especially as the US isnt there this time to rebuild it.
Frankly this talk of "NK is no real threat" is BS.
You cannot topple the regime anymore. Thats why they have nukes, they know they cant offencivly use them, but defencivly? Hell yeah.
If the good guys are marching on the capital and about to capture that little shit and his buddies you think they wont flick that nuke switch? What else have they got to lose? They know if they are caught they are facing a death sentence in the Hague. Thus they have nothing to lose, thus we CAN NOT topple them, period. THAT is why they have the nuke.
So we can't go in and take them down... all that means is that we can contain them, but frankly who the hell has the man power to do that? The US cant, hell they can barely fight in Iraq right not. NATO will offer support but not enough, Japan will help out because it pretty much has to. NK wont win an offencive war, but it will do so much damage as to fuck over the whole world.
The SK economy collapses.
The US can't help it out this time due to its own little financial trouble.
China may very well decide to buy itslf a very powerful friend increasing their world power. Not an ideal situation but better than a total crash. But then again Chain isnt looking to healthy right now either.
If the SK econmy does fall it brings a lot of Asia down with it. When Asia falls the rest will soon follow, and this recession we are all hearing about gets 7 fucktons worse.
Frankly the world cannot afford a war right now. NK is far more dangerous than most people realise.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Yes, he could cause some damage. My point isn't that he's not going to start a war, it's counter productive. Long term it's a no win situation. He declares war and aid dries up, his nuclear program is a viable target, what little of an economy he has left gets flattened. He might be able to cause some damage but in the end its a phyric victory. He'll have fucked us all over but he'll also have fucked over the only person he actually gives a damn about, himself.
But it can continue to build a few more nukes which make fantastic trading chips on the international market. Now they have one they can build quiten a few more rather safetly. Which puts them in a much better postion than they have been for the last 50 years.
As for war? Yeah they probably wont go all out any time soon, but they will start pushing more, and if that spirals...
Also i dont like relying on them being rational...
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Teaos, you're correct in your assessment of NK. However, my point was that KJI knows that any way would end up with his regime crushed very quickly, regardless of how much damage they do to SK. However, that damage is exactly why the US isn't going to invade them.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
I'm interested to see why Teaos thinks, however, that NATO's slowness of mobilization would affect a US response. You can't really think we'd wait for NATO or the UN to do what we want, right? You do know that the US is, well, the US, right?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Honestly, I dunno. While Bush was more than willing to jump out in front and give the UN the middle finger and not get to bent out of shape if NATO didn't want to come along for the ride do we know that Obama would be willing to make a immediate and massive commitment of US forces to SK? Not trying to be partisan just asking.
I don't know if we have the resources to spare at the moment, honestly.
Though, we're treaty bound to come to their aid, IIRC.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
