40+ killed in fighting between Kurds and the Turkish Army

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40+ killed in fighting between Kurds and the Turkish Army

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Dozens die in Turkey border clash

The attack on Turkish troops was one of the deadliest for some time
At least 12 Turkish soldiers have been killed following an ambush by Kurdish rebels near the Iraqi border - with 32 rebels also killed, officials say.
The PKK guerrilla group claimed it had also taken "several" soldiers hostage, but this was denied by the government.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called a crisis meeting in Ankara, which is likely to consider whether to attack PKK bases in Iraq.

But the defence minister said such action would not take place "urgently".

"There are plans to cross border" but "not urgently", Vecdi Gonul said after meeting US Defence Secretary Robert Gates in Ukraine.

On Wednesday, MPs voted overwhelmingly in support of a motion to allow the military to launch offensives across the border, against rebels based in the remote, mountainous north of Iraq.

It followed an escalation of raids by the PKK - the Kurdistan Workers' Party - as part of its armed campaign for Kurdish autonomy.

Recent attacks blamed on the group have left more than 40 Turkish soldiers and civilians dead.

Iraq has urged Turkey not to strike across the border.

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, himself a Kurd, called on the PKK rebels to lay down their arms.

"But if they insist on continuing to fight, they should leave Iraqi Kurdistan and not create problems here," he said.

Iraq's parliament passed a motion condemning Turkey's threat of force, but also called for the PKK to leave Iraq.

Passengers wounded

In the latest attack shortly after midnight, a large group of PKK rebels crossed the border from Iraq and staged their assault near the village of Daglica in Hakkari province, the Turkish military said.

The army said it sent reinforcements and helicopters to the area, fired artillery and launched retaliatory attacks in which 32 guerrillas were killed.

PKK sources confirmed the fighting, and claimed more troops were killed than the official figure of 12.

"There were clashes with the Turkish troops late last night in which we have killed at least 16 soldiers and wounded 20. We also captured several," Reuters quoted an unnamed rebel source as saying.

Turkey's defence minister denied that, saying: "There are no hostages."

Not far from the scene of the fighting, a minibus was later caught in a landmine explosion, also blamed on the PKK, that injured 10 civilians, the state news agency Anatolia said.

Thousands of Turks joined protests in several cities denouncing the attacks and calling for action against the PKK.

The prime minister said: "We are very angry."

But he said he was "resolved to deal with these matters in a cool-headed manner".

Increased pressure

About 3,000 PKK fighters are believed to be based in northern Iraq near the Turkish border, says the BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul.

THE PKK

Formed in late 1970s
Launched armed struggle in 1984
Dropped independence demands in 1990s
Wants greater autonomy for Turkey's Kurds
Leader Abdullah Ocalan arrested in 1999
Ended five-year ceasefire in 2004

There have been regular clashes in the area since earlier in the year, but the latest attack was one of the deadliest for some time.

The clashes will increase pressure on the government from the public and the military for a tough response, our correspondent says.

The United States, Turkey's Nato ally, has called for restraint, fearing that any incursions would destabilise Iraq's most peaceful area - the autonomous Kurdish region in the north.

The regional government there says any intervention would be "illegal". It has denied providing the PKK with any help.

More than 30,000 people have been killed since the PKK began fighting for greater autonomy for the largely-Kurdish south-eastern Turkey since 1984.

The Beeb

And the Turks get their excuse to invade. Could be interesting to see how the US responds to this.
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Post by Tsukiyumi »

I know we certainly won't take any Turkish incursion lightly, but we seriously need to crack down on any terrorist groups operating out of Iraq. We have the responsibility to leave the Iraqi people more secure, not leave them open for invasion. Jeez, what a mess.

Just my two cents, but I think the UK should withdraw. We started this crap; it isn't Britain's responsibility to help bail us out.
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Post by Aaron »

The UK is leaving, their just doing it gradually so as to try not to leave too much of a vacumn.
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Well, things just keep getting better. :roll:
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Post by Azrael »

None of the countries can just bail out. we'd leave a political vaccume there, and a massecre.. that's why everyone is wanting a gradual reduction.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

A phased withdrawal is possible to a certain extent in MND (SW), where the British Army has pulled back to an overwatch role, leaving day-to-day patrolling in the hands of the local army and police. It's far from safe, but the Iraqis have been trained sufficiently to be able to handle it.

In the central Sunni areas, I doubt it. Violence has certainly been reduced by the surge, but the fact that it took such a massive increase in troops to achieve that shows just how serious the situstion is. The US Army will have to remain there for years to achieve the sort of sucess that has been achieved in the south, and the political will to do so simply doesn't exist. Conclusion - central Iraq is and will be unstable and chaotic for years, and probably decades to come.
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Post by Tsukiyumi »

No doubt, Seafort.

And, Azrael: After the Madrid bombings, Spain withdrew all 1,300 of their troops. Several other countries quickly followed suit. I know the UK has more troops present, but their pull-out could proceed fairly rapidly with little consequence, IMO. Anyone know what British troop levels in Iraq are at, currently? I'm curious.
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Post by Aaron »

Roughly 4,000 I believe but it's in flux.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Currently about 5,000, with plans to cut that to 4500 by Christmas and 2500 by next spring. Source
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Post by Azrael »

for the USA it's like 160,000, or was i think we dropped to pre surge numbers around 130,000 troops.
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Post by Tsukiyumi »

I, for one, think America should publicly acknowledge Britain's assistance in Iraq and Afghanistan, and unequivocally state our appreciation and thanks. Due in part to their involvement, they've been targeted by these extremist religious wackos as well, and that irks me quite a lot.

In case you cousins across the pond didn't know, a lot of Americans do appreciate your help in this matter. It would be nice if our country would make it more obvious.
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Post by Mikey »

That is certainly true. As far as what the US thinks of any Turkish response... well, I don't think they care right now what we think. Certainly not after the US Congresss just passed a resolution condemning the Ottoman Turks as genocidal for the killing of Armenians during WWI.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

*Shrugs* Can't say I care about what the Turks think. Until they pull out of Cyprus they've got no room to complain about other people's opinion of what counts as "their" territory. Neither will the current US administration have room to complain about the Turks' actions if they go into northern Iraq after the Kurds.
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Post by Mikey »

I tend to agree... unfortuantely, the current administration DOES care, and I'm sure it intends to complain a lot. However, we've sort of painted ourselves into a corner, with our current reliance on Turkish soil as a staging area.

My personal take is that the Kurds were painted as the helpless, doe-eyed, innocent victims of Saddam Hussein - which to an extent they were. However, that doesn't let them off the hook for whatever Turkish reprisals there might be toward their aggression.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

True, the Turks have no right to complain about people violating territorial integrety after Cyprus, but neither does the PKK have any right to complain about getting hammered for using Kurdistan as a base for raids on Turkey. The hypocracy of Bush complaining about one country invading another due to terrorist activities originating in the latter (if he does so) would be a fitting addtion to this farce.
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