Trial failure

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Sionnach Glic
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Sionnach Glic »

We shouldn't rely on individuals for anything. Checks and Balance are in place for a reason.
Agreed. Have one judge overseeing the court proceedings as we do now, and have three or five other judges replacing the jury. They'd be far more likely to understand the evidence presented on both sides, and far less likely to let someone off "because they seem innocent".

The fact is that the average person can't be trusted with such matters. People are dumb, and can easily be biased and prejudiced towards the defendant, or in favour of them.
For example, let's say a man is stabbed to death in rural Alabama. A few days later, Mr. Mohhamed Hussein is brought into court and sworn in on a copy of the Koran. Go on, just try and tell me that a bunch of hicks from rural Alabama are going to let that guy off, even if he's innocent.

On another note, I find it telling that not one person has stepped up to defend the jury system. I think we're all in agreement that it sucks.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Lazar »

I've read some proposals for having professional juries in some kind of pool, just like we have professional judges, prosecutors and defense attorneys. Like others here, I've always been skeptical of the idea of just taking 12 people off the street, who have no training in law, who are easily swayed emotionally, and who might end up completely out of their depth if they have to weigh conflicting testimony from expert witnesses.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Graham Kennedy »

The jury system has huge problems, but at the end of the day I think it's the "least bad" system.

A jury of judges? Hell no. As it stands the state investigates the crime, prosecutes the case, sets the rules under which the case will be heard, decides the sentence and exacts the punishment. I'm damned if I will stand by and see the state also assume the power to decide which of the people it is prosecuting are innocent or guilty as well.

Also, I have a very deep hard flinch whenever I hear the words "obviously guilty". Those words take the beating heart of the entire justice system of any civilised country, and they ram a knife right through it.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Lazar »

GrahamKennedy wrote:I'm damned if I will stand by and see the state also assume the power to decide which of the people it is prosecuting are innocent or guilty as well.
Good thing you don't live in France then. :P
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Oh for so MANY reasons....
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Aaron »

GrahamKennedy wrote:The jury system has huge problems, but at the end of the day I think it's the "least bad" system.

A jury of judges? Hell no. As it stands the state investigates the crime, prosecutes the case, sets the rules under which the case will be heard, decides the sentence and exacts the punishment. I'm damned if I will stand by and see the state also assume the power to decide which of the people it is prosecuting are innocent or guilty as well.

Also, I have a very deep hard flinch whenever I hear the words "obviously guilty". Those words take the beating heart of the entire justice system of any civilised country, and they ram a knife right through it.
Having been in court, I opted for a trial by judge (or summary trial basically) on the advice of my lawyer who and I quote said "go with the judge, juries are morons".
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Re: Trial failure

Post by stitch626 »

I could imagine a good jury. They're made up of people I know. And I'd be one of them.

Not that I'd want to be on a jury, but I'd be able to make a sound judgement based on the evidence provided. That said, it still relies on the strength of the parties cases.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Teaos »

I have been on one jury (not suprising considering my age and you can only be on one every 3 years from the age of 18) and it was the mist frustrating moment of my life. The majoirty of the jury were idiots, about 3 of us were trying to explain we were supposed to just look at the FACTS and decide guilt or innocence, we werent allowed to let our emotions or sypathy cloud our judgement... we ended up a hung jury.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Sionnach Glic »

I've also been on a jury, that experience being the main reason why I consider my fellow citizens utterly useless when it comes to deciding important matters.
Teaos hit the nail on the head there. The majority are fucking stupid, and have no clue how to go about looking at things objectively. No shitting, one guy on the jury said with a completely straight face "he can't be innocent, he's such a nice guy". :roll:
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Deepcrush »

Professional Jury??? That's a very interesting idea...
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Teaos »

Proffessional jury = Corruption.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Deepcrush »

Why is that? You take people trained in the law and sciences and then pick them at random from across a state.
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Re: Trial failure

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Aye. Have a pool of different judges that can be chosen to be involved in any case. A week before the names of those chosen to act as jury are officialy released, they're all taken to a secure location near the courtroom and cut off from outside contact, preventing any corruption from occuring. The only way corruption could really occur in such a scenario is if the accused starts offering every judge money to let him off, and not a single one reports his attempts at corruption.

And personaly, I'd rather take a small chance over the wrong verdict being given due to corruption than a larger chance at the wrong verdict being given due to the fact that the jury are imbeciles.
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