An Eye For An Eye?

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Sionnach Glic
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An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Sionnach Glic »

This thread is both a bit of news, and something to inspire debate. I'm sure all of us have heard of the old "an eye for an eye" saying, meaning basicaly that if someone does X to you, X should be done to them in turn. The judges in the case below seem to have had that in mind when they agreed on the criminal's sentence. Read on.
TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- An Iranian woman, blinded by a jilted stalker who threw acid in her face, has persuaded a court to sentence him to be blinded with acid himself under Islamic law demanding an eye for an eye.

Ameneh Bahrami refused to accept "blood money." She insisted instead that her attacker suffer a fate similar to her own "so people like him would realize they do not have the right to throw acid in girls' faces," she told the Tehran Provincial Court.

Her attacker, a 27-year-old man identified in court papers as Majid, admitted throwing acid in her face in November 2004, blinding and disfiguring her. He said he loved her and insisted she loved him as well.

He has until early this week to appeal the sentence.

Doctors say there is no chance Bahrami will recover her vision, despite repeated operations, including medical care in Spain partially paid for by Iran's reformist former president, Mohammed Khatami, who was in power when the attack took place.

Majid said he was still willing to marry Bahrami, but she ruled out the possibility and urged that he remain locked up.

"I am not willing to get blood money from the defendant, who is still thinking about destroying me and wants to take my eyes out," she told the court. "How could he pretend to be in love? If they let this guy go free, he will definitely kill me."

Bahrami told the court that Majid's mother had repeatedly tried to arrange a marriage between the two after Majid met Bahrami at university.

She rejected the offer, not even sure at first who the suitor was. Her friends told her he was a man who had once harassed her in class, leading to an argument between them.

But he refused to accept her rejection, she said, going to her workplace and threatening her.

Finally, she lied and told him she had married someone else and that "it would be better all around if he would leave [her] alone."

She told the court that she reported the conversation to police, saying he had threatened her with "burning for the rest of my life" -- but they said they could not act until a crime had been committed.

Two days later, on November 2, 2004, as she was walking home from work, she became aware of a man following her. She slowed, then stopped to let him pass.

"When the person came close, I realized that it was Majid," she said. "Everything happened in a second. He was holding a red container in his hand. He looked into my eyes for a second and threw the contents of the red container into my face."

Bahrami knew exactly what was happening, she said.

"At that moment, I saw in my mind the face of two sisters who years ago had the same thing happen to them. I thought, 'Oh, my God -- acid.' "

Passers-by tried to wash the acid off Bahrami, then took her to Labafinejad Hospital.

"They did everything possible for me," she said of the doctors and nurses there.

Then, one day, they asked her to sign papers allowing them to operate on her.

"I said, 'Do you want to take my eyes out?' The doctor cried and left."

They did want to remove her eyes surgically, she learned, for fear they would become infected, potentially leading to a fatal infection of her brain.

But she refused to allow it, both because she was not sure she could handle it psychologically, and because she thought her death would be easier for her family to bear.

"If I had died, my family would probably be sad for a year and mourn my death, and then they would get used to it," she told the court. "But now every day they look at me and see that I am slowly wasting away."

The three-judge panel ruled unanimously on November 26 that Majid should be blinded with acid and forced to pay compensation for the injuries to Bahrami's face, hands and body caused by the acid.

That was what she had demanded earlier in the trial. But she did not ask for his face to be disfigured, as hers was.

"Of course, only blind him and take his eyes, because I cannot behave the way he did and ask for acid to be thrown in his face," she said. "Because that would be [a] savage, barbaric act. Only take away his sight so that his eyes will become like mine. I am not saying this from a selfish motive. This is what society demands."

Attacking women and girls by throwing acid in their faces is sufficiently common in countries such as Bangladesh and Cambodia that groups have been formed to fight it. Human rights organizations have condemned the practice in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is not clear how often such attacks take place in Iran.

Iran and Saudi Arabia are the only countries that consider eye-gouging to be a legitimate judicial punishment, Human Rights Watch has said.
I'm sure that after reading that you're all thinking "the fucker deserved that" (it's what I thought, at least).
But did he? And if he did, should we take the "an eye for an eye" attitude with respect to all matters of justice?
In short, is this justified, and is this a proper way for a justice system to operate?

Discuss! :)
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Lazar »

I don't think it's ethical for the state to inflict physical punishment. What if someone is found to have been wrongly convicted? You can release someone from imprisonment and compensate them for their time, but you can't reverse a death sentence or a mutilation.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by USSEnterprise »

The Hammurabi Laws are making a come back!!!
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Lazar »

Have you seen that B-movie action scene where the villain ends up getting both his eyes gouged out?

"We'll keep an eye out for you."

"Yeah - see ya!"
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

Rochey wrote:An Eye For An Eye?
Anyone want to guess at how long it would then take until everyone on Earth is blind? :)
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Sionnach Glic »

What if someone is found to have been wrongly convicted? You can release someone from imprisonment and compensate them for their time, but you can't reverse a death sentence or a mutilation.
Assume this is a case where there's no room for doubting the guy did it (eg, multiple eye-witnesses, conffession from the guy himself, etc).
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Tsukiyumi »

I'd go with my old fall-back of "shoot him in the face", but if they want to toss acid at him, I say go for it. There are multiple first-hand witnesses, and the guy confessed.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Teaos »

Majid said he was still willing to marry Bahrami, but she ruled out the possibility and urged that he remain locked up.
He sounds like a top bloke.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Teaos wrote:
Majid said he was still willing to marry Bahrami, but she ruled out the possibility and urged that he remain locked up.
He sounds like a top bloke.
A perfect gentleman, for sure. :?
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Aaron »

Does he deserve it? Yes, he does. I can't bring myself to condone it though, mostly because it won't do anything but make his life a living hell (which is a compelling argument I'll admit), there's no way this will serve as a deterrent to the various other shitheads running loose in Iran. And unless there is a complete and sudden reversal in how the men view woman under Islam than it's going to be a while before anything changes.

Lock him up for life, which is likely a far worse punishment in the Middle East than being blinded.
A perfect gentleman, for sure.
Oh, you'd be a fool not to let your daughter marry him. :roll:
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Cpl Kendall wrote:...And unless there is a complete and sudden reversal in how the men view woman under Islam than it's going to be a while before anything changes...
Which will happen as soon as I become an Evangelical Christian minister, and George Bush gets his doctorate in Physics.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by USSEnterprise »

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:...And unless there is a complete and sudden reversal in how the men view woman under Islam than it's going to be a while before anything changes...
Which will happen as soon as I become an Evangelical Christian minister, and George Bush gets his doctorate in Physics.
So any day now....
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Mark »

In this particular case, I'm all for it. But, it COULD set a dangerous precedent though.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by Mikey »

The Lex Talionis has one big failing - someone actually has to carry out the punishments. There is a reason that the empire which followed the Code of Hammurabi fell apart when Hammurabi's heirs took over. In the Western world, at least, the purported goal of our penal systems is either rehabilitation or segregation - not revenge. Revenge feels good, but it's a means without an end.
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Re: An Eye For An Eye?

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

USSEnterprise wrote:The Hammurabi Laws are making a come back!!!
Beat me to it.

I'd say... I sympathize with her, but no. Lock him up and take all he owns, but don't blind him.
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